[Newbies] Re: Why hasn't Smalltalk been wildly accepted?

[stéphane ducasse]

you are right!

BTW did you try http://smallwiki.unibe.ch/Botsinc for your kids and  
also Plop (but that this is really for the total fun).
You should have a look at Dolphin this is even slicker :)

Stef

On 14 août 06, at 07:46, christo wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I'm VERY new to Smalltalk and I'm currently cherishing my first  
> impressions of Squeak (because they are informative not because  
> they are positive) and further I am paid to write Java at work.  
> With that out of the way I'd like to agree with Keith Hodges here.
>
> "Its all down to marketing marketing and more marketing."
>
> Very true. It's something I've observed many brilliant programmers  
> utterly fail to grasp.
>
> For those of you who fail likewise this try this exercise: Imagine  
> your first experience of something new. Imagine you can't stand the  
> smell of it. You have such a visceral response to it that you  
> really don't want to consider any other worthy attributes of it.  
> The only thing that can occupy your mind is that it stinks and you  
> want to throw up and please can someone just get it away from you.
>
> Now imagine something that has not been expertly marketed and  
> designed (though not necessarily commercially marketed and  
> designed). To the vast majority of people (perhaps not people like  
> you and perhaps not rightly) this new thing smells just like the  
> thing you imagined. Until that marketing happens (either "virally"  
> through personal recommendation or through more traditional means)  
> that thing will stink for anyone else who goes near it.
>
> I hope this metaphor isn't too way out but for me it captures the  
> problem with Squeak (and other good technical things that have not  
> had their due attention in the world). I know squeak isn't  
> Smalltalk but I ultimately tried Squeak because I wanted to teach  
> my kids programming and learn a nice language myself. So far so  
> good but I decided to carefully capture some of my initial  
> impressions. Squeak definitely lacks any kind of capable graphic  
> design or usability sense. It's not a criticism because of course I  
> can try to help fix it etc etc. But it is intended to serve as an  
> explanation to those who just can't imagine why others wouldn't  
> fall instantly in love with it.
>
> I've lumped visual design and marketing together in this discussion  
> which is usually an oversimplification, but I think it contrasts  
> with the purist engineering aspect.
>
> The name "Smalltalk" also smells by the way. Java used to smell a  
> bit because it sounds kinda funky and unprofessional on first  
> hearing to a middle manager, but over time this reaction has been  
> marketed away. "Smalltalk" sounds to those folk like something  
> feeble, uncapable. It can be overcome but only with attention paid  
> to promotion.
>
> Marketing forms preconceptions and "prejudices". Lack of marketing  
> makes things seem suspect and unworthy in comparison to those  
> things that get good press (however unworthily).
>
> I do intend to follow advice I've received from professional  
> Smalltalk developers and get Cincom's IDE but I don't think that's  
> going to be part of my project to teach my kids to program.


You should have a look at Dolphin this is even slicker :)


>
>
> Feedback encouraged.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris.
>
> -- 
> Chris Mountford
>
> "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.  
> But, in practice, there is." -- Jan L. A. van de Snepscheut
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