[Newbies] Grafoscopio and the Data Week: Critical code+data literacy practices and pocket infrastructures from/for the Global South

Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas offray at riseup.net
Wed Feb 7 00:19:55 UTC 2018


Hi Herbert,

I understand. That confirms my initial assertion, when I said that "I
changed, but community was kind of the same". I'm not a developer, but
some kind of old user coming back (but not a beginner, anymore). I don't
think that there is a need for a new list. Maybe just talking here of
more advanced topics here will show that beginners change, without
becoming devs ;-).

Cheers,

Offray


On 06/02/18 17:22, Herbert König wrote:
>
> Hi Offray,
>
> to make my point more explicit:
>
> IMO our community is small and fragmentation (of communication
> channels) is not helpful. There are some 'special' concerns like VMDev
> and Beginners that 'justify' their own channels but most additional
> Squeak channels have dried out quickly.
>
> Should have said this in the first place instead of giving tips how to
> mitigate what you seemed to dislike on Squeak dev. :-))
>
> Cheers,
>
> Herbert 
>
>
> Am 06.02.2018 um 20:53 schrieb Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas:
>>
>> Thanks Ron and Herbert,
>>
>> I would rater try to improve a "users lists" that filter commits in a
>> dev-list. That's one of the interesting points of systems like
>> discourse: you can create subthreads for particular information and
>> connect or not to them, create hooks and get only the information you
>> are interested in.
>>
>> Seems that we have plenty of channels and I don't know if one more is
>> going to help with the problem of more fluid communication in the
>> community that helps with dynamics of governance (like voting). In
>> the case of Manjaro, I was already in an old forum that was migrated
>> to discourse, so I don't know a lot about details on managing Spam.
>> Discourse have spam filters activate and you only get to post a lot
>> of information with links, if you have interacted with the community
>> enough, with preset rules. That means that your first post, as a
>> member could have maybe two links, but you can not start to put a lot
>> of links in the same post, unless you gain some reputation, which
>> discourages spammers.
>>
>> For me the important thing is: can we have a more permanent and fluid
>> conversation that shows the pulse and vitality of this community? If
>> the way to do it is to be in the developers list, filter commits with
>> extra technical info, and having a beginners list with almost no
>> entries, so we are not addressing properly the transitions and middle
>> places between users and developers: you have too much info or too
>> little. More granular information is a place where forums like
>> discourse could help.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Offray
>>
>>
>> On 06/02/18 12:53, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:
>>> Hi Offray, 
>>>
>>> I like the idea of forums. Always have.  Did the Manjaro community
>>> have trouble with spam?  How is it moderated?  Email lists seem to
>>> be less vulnerable to spam, although we have received some in the
>>> past.  Forums seem to need constant moderation to ensure they are
>>> not invaded by spam.  I seem to remember there was a forum way back
>>> when. There is a forum interface to the mailing list
>>> already: http://forum.world.st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.html
>>> <http://forum.world.st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.html>.  What do you
>>> think Discourse would add to the community over what we have already?  
>>>
>>> Also, note there are a few other places where we sort of gather.
>>> #IRC #squeak http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/squeak/
>>> <http://tunes.org/%7Enef/logs/squeak/> don't see much going on
>>> there.  Google Plus
>>> Group: https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/111117917267462353507
>>> <https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/111117917267462353507>.
>>> Twitter https://twitter.com/SqueakSmalltalk. Planet
>>> Squeak: http://planet.squeak.org/ and https://news.squeak.org/ wow
>>> it has been a long time since I made a post!  
>>>
>>> I imagine someone probably did a slack channel.  Yes I was
>>> correct: http://squeak.org/community/ 
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Ron Teitelbaum
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Herbert König
>>> <herbertkoenig at gmx.net <mailto:herbertkoenig at gmx.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Hi Offray,
>>>
>>>
>>>     Squeak dev always has been the place to be and newbies was just
>>>     invented to have a lower hurdle on entry.
>>>
>>>     For the automatic traffic there's (spam) filters in your mail
>>>     program.
>>>
>>>
>>>     Please feel free move over, we are not so many in our community
>>>     that separate lists are needed.
>>>
>>>
>>>     My 2c.
>>>
>>>     Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>>     Herbert
>>>
>>>
>>>     Am 06.02.2018 um 17:13 schrieb Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas:
>>>>
>>>>     Hi Ron,
>>>>
>>>>     I'm just in the beginners list (when I subscribed I was a
>>>>     beginner and I never thought of myself as a developer). I have
>>>>     seen the dev list, but there is a lot of automatic mail send by
>>>>     commit activity. I'm not sure if I want such traffic in my mail
>>>>     inbox.
>>>>
>>>>     Anyway, having proper feedback places is important and I wonder
>>>>     if some kind of middle place between developers and beginners
>>>>     is needed. In the Pharo case, the users list has pretty good
>>>>     activity without details about commits. Maybe beginners is
>>>>     misleading and we need a users list or setup something like
>>>>     discourse[1] to improve communication. In the Manjaro case, it
>>>>     has worked pretty well[2] (but, of course, infrastructure by
>>>>     itself is not a warranty).
>>>>
>>>>     [1] https://www.discourse.org/
>>>>     [2] http://forum.manjaro.org/
>>>>
>>>>     Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>     Offray
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On 06/02/18 10:51, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:
>>>>>     Offray,
>>>>>
>>>>>     Are you signed up on the squeak-dev mailing list or just
>>>>>     beginners?  I think the members of the Squeak-Dev list would
>>>>>     enjoy having you there!  You would also get more feedback from
>>>>>     that group.
>>>>>
>>>>>     All the best,
>>>>>
>>>>>     Ron
>>>>>
>>>>>     On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
>>>>>     <offray at riseup.net <mailto:offray at riseup.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>         Sorry for the typo, I meant Joseph.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         On 05/02/18 21:09, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas wrote:
>>>>>         > Hi Joshep,
>>>>>
>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>>         Beginners mailing list
>>>>>         Beginners at lists.squeakfoundation.org
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>>>>>         http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
>>>>>         <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     _______________________________________________
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>>>>>     http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
>>>>>     <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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