From robert at kuropkat.com  Wed Apr 24 01:26:53 2019
From: robert at kuropkat.com (Robert Kuropkat)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2019 21:26:53 -0400
Subject: [Newbies] Squeak Learn Programing with Robots
In-Reply-To: <20190305025323.GA33970@shell.msen.com>
References: <7cca9d1dd2a2fd3efe9c719d019a482905538ef7.camel@kuropkat.com>
 <20190303184717.GB6817@shell.msen.com>
 <e685a211b79bbe52a8be40ee085104875059f058.camel@kuropkat.com>
 <20190304175448.GA57948@shell.msen.com> <web-2022506@2rosenthals.com>
 <20190305025323.GA33970@shell.msen.com>
Message-ID: <ef63540719c8f354d48410c0005776f2f5b25b7d.camel@kuropkat.com>

On Mon, 2019-03-04 at 21:53 -0500, David T. Lewis wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 04, 2019 at 03:19:50PM -0500, Robert Kuropkat wrote:
> > On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 12:54:48 -0500
> >  "David T. Lewis" <lewis at mail.msen.com> wrote:
> > > 
> 

<snip>

> Hi Robert,
> 
> I think that we are mixing terms a bit with respect to Squeak
> versions, so let me clarify what I was saying. When I speak about
> a version of Squeak, I am thinking mainly of the image itself (the
> squeak.image file and its companion squeak.changes file).
> 
> The VM (virtual machine) is the execution engine for that image,
> and in general terms, any given version of Squeak (the image) will
> run on any of several VMs, and any given VM will be able to run
> various versions (but not all versions) of Squeak images.
> 
> For example, if you point your web browser to http://try.squeak.org
> you will find a web based VM written in JavaScript that is able
> to run a very wide range of Squeak versions. The VM is completely
> different from the one that you might install on your Linux or
> Windows PC, but it runs the Squeak images exactly as if they were
> running on a traditional compiled VM.
> 
> If you are working with a Squeak image that was distributed with
> a book, then you probably have both the image itself, and possibly
> several VMs from that time period. You can be confident that the
> image itself will still work well today, and probably for many more
> years in the future. However, any VM that was distributed 10 years
> ago or more may be in need of an update, due to changes in operating
> systems and runtime libraries for those operating systems.
> 
> This is the reason that I wanted to test your Ready.image on a
> recently
> compiled VM on my PC. This confirms that the image works, and also
> that it would be possible for you to recompile a new version of the
> VM for that image if you needed to do so,
> 
> In general, you will find that old VMs for Windows will work reliably
> for many years, but VMs for Linux will need to be recompiled more
> frequently.
> 
> Assuming that you are using Linux PCs for the class that you are
> planning
> to teach, I would say that if you have a working image and VM
> combination,
> then just use it. But if you do find problems using an older VM on
> Linux,
> then I am confident that an updated VM can be provided (and I can
> help
> with that).
> 
> Dave
> 

Dave,

Finally getting back to this.  To make sure I am thinking clearly, the
image file can be named anything, in my case Ready.image and has a
matching file Ready.changes.  This particular file is a 3.x version of
Squeak.

The VM however, can be any version so long as it runs on the target
environment.  So if I download "Squeak v5" from the Squeak website, I
am getting v5 squeak.image and a "v5" VM.  However, I should be able to
point the v5 VM and the Ready.image file and it should work?  Assuming
I am doing it right, I get the following error:

Running 32-bit Squeak on a 64-bit System. install-libs32 may install
them.
Using /home/robert/Squeak5/Squeak5.2-18229-64bit-All-in-
One.app/Contents/Linux-i686/bin/squeak...
This interpreter (vers. 68021) cannot read image file (vers.
1712914432).

I believe I have installed the supporting 32bit libraries correctly.  I
also tried modifying the start.sh script and setting "IMAGE_BITS" to
"32".  That gave me an error about this VM not supporting Linux-i686
(that error was generated by the startup script, not Squeak itself).  I
tried cheating and linking that directory to Linux-x86_64 and got the
error above.  I didn't really expect that to work, but had to give it a
try :-)

Do I need a proper Linux-i686 compiled version or am I doing something
else wrong?

Robert

P.S.  I am running on Lubuntu 18.04, 64 bit...


> _______________________________________________
> Beginners mailing list
> Beginners at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners


From kksubbu.ml at gmail.com  Wed Apr 24 05:31:08 2019
From: kksubbu.ml at gmail.com (K K Subbu)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:01:08 +0530
Subject: [Newbies] Squeak Learn Programing with Robots
In-Reply-To: <ef63540719c8f354d48410c0005776f2f5b25b7d.camel@kuropkat.com>
References: <7cca9d1dd2a2fd3efe9c719d019a482905538ef7.camel@kuropkat.com>
 <20190303184717.GB6817@shell.msen.com>
 <e685a211b79bbe52a8be40ee085104875059f058.camel@kuropkat.com>
 <20190304175448.GA57948@shell.msen.com> <web-2022506@2rosenthals.com>
 <20190305025323.GA33970@shell.msen.com>
 <ef63540719c8f354d48410c0005776f2f5b25b7d.camel@kuropkat.com>
Message-ID: <3cc9f2e9-555b-5659-883f-8c651c672f3d@gmail.com>

On 24/04/19 6:56 AM, Robert Kuropkat wrote:
> Running 32-bit Squeak on a 64-bit System. install-libs32 may install
> them.
> Using /home/robert/Squeak5/Squeak5.2-18229-64bit-All-in-
> One.app/Contents/Linux-i686/bin/squeak...
> This interpreter (vers. 68021) cannot read image file (vers.
> 1712914432).

This error means that you are trying to edit a 32-bit big-endian 
(1712914432) V3 image with a VM that reads 64-bit spur images (68021).

You need a VM that can read 32-bit 6502 images (endian doesn't matter). 
Simplest way to get going is to install squeak-vm package with:

    apt-get install squeak-vm

Regards .. Subbu

From robert at kuropkat.com  Wed Apr 24 15:08:57 2019
From: robert at kuropkat.com (Robert Kuropkat)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:08:57 -0400
Subject: [Newbies] Squeak Learn Programing with Robots
In-Reply-To: <3cc9f2e9-555b-5659-883f-8c651c672f3d@gmail.com>
References: <7cca9d1dd2a2fd3efe9c719d019a482905538ef7.camel@kuropkat.com>
 <20190303184717.GB6817@shell.msen.com>
 <e685a211b79bbe52a8be40ee085104875059f058.camel@kuropkat.com>
 <20190304175448.GA57948@shell.msen.com>
 <web-2022506@2rosenthals.com>
 <20190305025323.GA33970@shell.msen.com>
 <ef63540719c8f354d48410c0005776f2f5b25b7d.camel@kuropkat.com>
 <3cc9f2e9-555b-5659-883f-8c651c672f3d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <web-2195136@2rosenthals.com>


Subbu,

Thank-you.  I thought for my v5 Squeak install I did that 
and only installed the v3/4 Squeak VMs from the website 
downloads.  However, I'll go double check that.

Robert Kuropkat

P.S.  The v3 Squeak VM works just fine with the image. 
 It's my v4 and v5 VMs that do not...



On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:01:08 +0530
  K K Subbu <kksubbu.ml at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 24/04/19 6:56 AM, Robert Kuropkat wrote:
>> Running 32-bit Squeak on a 64-bit System. install-libs32 
>>may install
>> them.
>> Using /home/robert/Squeak5/Squeak5.2-18229-64bit-All-in-
>> One.app/Contents/Linux-i686/bin/squeak...
>> This interpreter (vers. 68021) cannot read image file 
>>(vers.
>> 1712914432).
> 
> This error means that you are trying to edit a 32-bit 
>big-endian (1712914432) V3 image with a VM that reads 
>64-bit spur images (68021).
> 
> You need a VM that can read 32-bit 6502 images (endian 
>doesn't matter). Simplest way to get going is to install 
>squeak-vm package with:
> 
>    apt-get install squeak-vm
> 
> Regards .. Subbu


From kksubbu.ml at gmail.com  Wed Apr 24 16:30:36 2019
From: kksubbu.ml at gmail.com (K K Subbu)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 22:00:36 +0530
Subject: [Newbies] Squeak Learn Programing with Robots
In-Reply-To: <web-2195136@2rosenthals.com>
References: <7cca9d1dd2a2fd3efe9c719d019a482905538ef7.camel@kuropkat.com>
 <20190303184717.GB6817@shell.msen.com>
 <e685a211b79bbe52a8be40ee085104875059f058.camel@kuropkat.com>
 <20190304175448.GA57948@shell.msen.com> <web-2022506@2rosenthals.com>
 <20190305025323.GA33970@shell.msen.com>
 <ef63540719c8f354d48410c0005776f2f5b25b7d.camel@kuropkat.com>
 <3cc9f2e9-555b-5659-883f-8c651c672f3d@gmail.com>
 <web-2195136@2rosenthals.com>
Message-ID: <ddfcebe2-0672-5844-d12a-46380ed78663@gmail.com>

Robert,

The v3 (aka classic or trunk) is just a synonym for 6502 format images. 
It does not refer to the release version.

Squeak (the product) has three components, each with their own "version" 
number

  * virtual machine (arch dependent). Use "-version" argument to get version
  * virtual image file (arch independent). See ckformat below
  * live object graph (arch independent). This graph is constructed in 
memory from the image file and is associated with an update sequence 
number. See "about squeak" to get this number.

The format number describes the encoding of object graph in an image 
file. Use the ckformat executable to get this number.

  $ ckformat Squeak5.2-18225-64bit.image
  68021

E.g. Squeak5.2-18225-64bit.image is a Squeak 5.2 release with an update 
sequence number of 18225 and a format number of 68021 with 64 bits per 
word (aka spur64).

HTH .. Subbu

On 24/04/19 8:38 PM, Robert Kuropkat wrote:
> 
> Subbu,
> 
> Thank-you.  I thought for my v5 Squeak install I did that and only 
> installed the v3/4 Squeak VMs from the website downloads.  However, I'll 
> go double check that.
> 
> Robert Kuropkat
> 
> P.S.  The v3 Squeak VM works just fine with the image. It's my v4 and v5 
> VMs that do not...
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2019 11:01:08 +0530
>   K K Subbu <kksubbu.ml at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 24/04/19 6:56 AM, Robert Kuropkat wrote:
>>> Running 32-bit Squeak on a 64-bit System. install-libs32 may install
>>> them.
>>> Using /home/robert/Squeak5/Squeak5.2-18229-64bit-All-in-
>>> One.app/Contents/Linux-i686/bin/squeak...
>>> This interpreter (vers. 68021) cannot read image file (vers.
>>> 1712914432).
>>
>> This error means that you are trying to edit a 32-bit big-endian 
>> (1712914432) V3 image with a VM that reads 64-bit spur images (68021).
>>
>> You need a VM that can read 32-bit 6502 images (endian doesn't 
>> matter). Simplest way to get going is to install squeak-vm package with:
>>
>>    apt-get install squeak-vm
>>
>> Regards .. Subbu
> 


From rpboland at gmail.com  Thu Apr 25 23:52:29 2019
From: rpboland at gmail.com (Ralph Boland)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2019 17:52:29 -0600
Subject: [Newbies] fileout on linux
Message-ID: <CAPMV+mxynEEV7Nib1tSHVybJ6SDz=4Rj-Mc17JxBB1+8+-S2dw@mail.gmail.com>

I am porting my squeak code from 4.7 to 5.2.
The port is done but when I fileout methods or classes
the files generated are not properly formatted for reading
with linux text editors (e.g. vi).

The method I used to do this in 4.7 appears to be deprecated
and I can't figure out the proper way to fix this in 5.2.

Since I downloaded the Linux version of 5.2 why isn't this set to work
automatically?
Or if not then at least settable in the preferences?

Thanks

Ralph Boland

From kksubbu.ml at gmail.com  Fri Apr 26 04:43:35 2019
From: kksubbu.ml at gmail.com (K K Subbu)
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2019 10:13:35 +0530
Subject: [Newbies] fileout on linux
In-Reply-To: <CAPMV+mxynEEV7Nib1tSHVybJ6SDz=4Rj-Mc17JxBB1+8+-S2dw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPMV+mxynEEV7Nib1tSHVybJ6SDz=4Rj-Mc17JxBB1+8+-S2dw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8d3ee3cf-f48c-baf2-69a2-7d4ad1780c9d@gmail.com>

On 26/04/19 5:22 AM, Ralph Boland wrote:> I am porting my squeak code 
from 4.7 to 5.2.
 > The port is done but when I fileout methods or classes
 > the files generated are not properly formatted for reading
 > with linux text editors (e.g. vi).
fileouts are in binary format. See

http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1105

Use the 'edit' button from Tools->File List to see or change their contents.

If you don't have Squeak handy, you could try this trick to browse (but 
not edit) the contents in vim:

  $ view '+set fileformats+=mac' myfileout.st

HTH .. Subbu