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<p>Hi Herbert,</p>
<p>I understand. That confirms my initial assertion, when I said
that "I changed, but community was kind of the same". I'm not a
developer, but some kind of old user coming back (but not a
beginner, anymore). I don't think that there is a need for a new
list. Maybe just talking here of more advanced topics here will
show that beginners change, without becoming devs ;-).</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Offray<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/02/18 17:22, Herbert König wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:3237f2c3-9542-9665-e3cd-a708527396ae@gmx.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<p>Hi Offray,<br>
</p>
to make my point more explicit:<br>
<br>
IMO our community is small and fragmentation (of communication
channels) is not helpful. There are some 'special' concerns like
VMDev and Beginners that 'justify' their own channels but most
additional Squeak channels have dried out quickly.<br>
<br>
Should have said this in the first place instead of giving tips
how to mitigate what you seemed to dislike on Squeak dev. :-))<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Herbert <br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 06.02.2018 um 20:53 schrieb Offray
Vladimir Luna Cárdenas:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:2d1568dc-a791-aa93-7f3d-31667baa6296@riseup.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8">
<p>Thanks Ron and Herbert,</p>
<p>I would rater try to improve a "users lists" that filter
commits in a dev-list. That's one of the interesting points of
systems like discourse: you can create subthreads for
particular information and connect or not to them, create
hooks and get only the information you are interested in.</p>
<p>Seems that we have plenty of channels and I don't know if one
more is going to help with the problem of more fluid
communication in the community that helps with dynamics of
governance (like voting). In the case of Manjaro, I was
already in an old forum that was migrated to discourse, so I
don't know a lot about details on managing Spam. Discourse
have spam filters activate and you only get to post a lot of
information with links, if you have interacted with the
community enough, with preset rules. That means that your
first post, as a member could have maybe two links, but you
can not start to put a lot of links in the same post, unless
you gain some reputation, which discourages spammers.<br>
</p>
<p>For me the important thing is: can we have a more permanent
and fluid conversation that shows the pulse and vitality of
this community? If the way to do it is to be in the developers
list, filter commits with extra technical info, and having a
beginners list with almost no entries, so we are not
addressing properly the transitions and middle places between
users and developers: you have too much info or too little.
More granular information is a place where forums like
discourse could help.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Offray<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/02/18 12:53, Ron Teitelbaum
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAEzdQ-dajF9cyp-DRd5UHmD2_87eWAZovncshizGeGAGDp+E7Q@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Offray,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I like the idea of forums. Always have. Did the
Manjaro community have trouble with spam? How is it
moderated? Email lists seem to be less vulnerable to
spam, although we have received some in the past. Forums
seem to need constant moderation to ensure they are not
invaded by spam. I seem to remember there was a forum way
back when. There is a forum interface to the mailing list
already: <a
href="http://forum.world.st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://forum.world.<wbr>st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.<wbr>html</a>.
What do you think Discourse would add to the community
over what we have already? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, note there are a few other places where we sort
of gather. #IRC #squeak <a
href="http://tunes.org/%7Enef/logs/squeak/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/<wbr>squeak/</a>
don't see much going on there. Google Plus Group: <a
href="https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/111117917267462353507"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://plus.google.<wbr>com/u/1/communities/<wbr>111117917267462353507</a>.
Twitter <a href="https://twitter.com/SqueakSmalltalk"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://twitter.com/SqueakSmalltalk</a>.
Planet Squeak: <a href="http://planet.squeak.org/"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://planet.squeak.org/</a>
and <a href="https://news.squeak.org/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://news.squeak.org/</a> wow
it has been a long time since I made a post! </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I imagine someone probably did a slack channel. Yes I
was correct: <a href="http://squeak.org/community/"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://squeak.org/community/</a> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>All the best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ron Teitelbaum</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 11:32 AM,
Herbert König <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">herbertkoenig@gmx.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Hi Offray,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Squeak dev always has been the place to be and
newbies was just invented to have a lower hurdle
on entry.</p>
<p>For the automatic traffic there's (spam) filters
in your mail program.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Please feel free move over, we are not so many in
our community that separate lists are needed.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>My 2c.<br>
</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Herbert<br>
</p>
<div>
<div
class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001h5">
<br>
<div
class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145moz-cite-prefix">Am
06.02.2018 um 17:13 schrieb Offray Vladimir
Luna Cárdenas:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Hi Ron,</p>
<p>I'm just in the beginners list (when I
subscribed I was a beginner and I never
thought of myself as a developer). I have
seen the dev list, but there is a lot of
automatic mail send by commit activity. I'm
not sure if I want such traffic in my mail
inbox.</p>
<p>Anyway, having proper feedback places is
important and I wonder if some kind of
middle place between developers and
beginners is needed. In the Pharo case, the
users list has pretty good activity without
details about commits. Maybe beginners is
misleading and we need a users list or setup
something like discourse[1] to improve
communication. In the Manjaro case, it has
worked pretty well[2] (but, of course,
infrastructure by itself is not a warranty).<br>
</p>
[1] <a
class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.discourse.org/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.discourse.org/</a><br>
[2] <a
class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://forum.manjaro.org/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://forum.manjaro.org/</a><br>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Offray<br>
</p>
<br>
<div
class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145moz-cite-prefix">On
06/02/18 10:51, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Offray,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Are you signed up on the squeak-dev
mailing list or just beginners? I think
the members of the Squeak-Dev list would
enjoy having you there! You would also
get more feedback from that group.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>All the best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ron</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 6,
2018 at 9:50 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna
Cárdenas <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:offray@riseup.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">offray@riseup.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Sorry
for the typo, I meant Joseph.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 05/02/18 21:09, Offray Vladimir
Luna Cárdenas wrote:<br>
> Hi Joshep,<br>
<div
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<div
class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145h5"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Beginners mailing list<br>
<a
href="mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Beginners@lists.squeakfoundati<wbr>on.org</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.squeakfoundation.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/beginners</a><br>
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<a class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.squeakfoundation.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/beginners</a>
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Beginners mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Beginners@lists.squeakfoundati<wbr>on.org</a><br>
<a
href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.squeakfoundation.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/beginners</a><br>
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners</a>
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