<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Hi Offray,<br>
    </p>
    to make my point more explicit:<br>
    <br>
    IMO our community is small and fragmentation (of communication
    channels) is not helpful. There are some 'special' concerns like
    VMDev and Beginners that 'justify' their own channels but most
    additional Squeak channels have dried out quickly.<br>
    <br>
    Should have said this in the first place instead of giving tips how
    to mitigate what you seemed to dislike on Squeak dev. :-))<br>
    <br>
    Cheers,<br>
    <br>
    Herbert  <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 06.02.2018 um 20:53 schrieb Offray
      Vladimir Luna Cárdenas:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:2d1568dc-a791-aa93-7f3d-31667baa6296@riseup.net">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <p>Thanks Ron and Herbert,</p>
      <p>I would rater try to improve a "users lists" that filter
        commits in a dev-list. That's one of the interesting points of
        systems like discourse: you can create subthreads for particular
        information and connect or not to them, create hooks and get
        only the information you are interested in.</p>
      <p>Seems that we have plenty of channels and I don't know if one
        more is going to help with the problem of more fluid
        communication in the community that helps with dynamics of
        governance (like voting). In the case of Manjaro, I was already
        in an old forum that was migrated to discourse, so I don't know
        a lot about details on managing Spam. Discourse have spam
        filters activate and you only get to post a lot of information
        with links, if you have interacted with the community enough,
        with preset rules. That means that your first post, as a member
        could have maybe two links, but you can not start to put a lot
        of links in the same post, unless you gain some reputation,
        which discourages spammers.<br>
      </p>
      <p>For me the important thing is: can we have a more permanent and
        fluid conversation that shows the pulse and vitality of this
        community? If the way to do it is to be in the developers list,
        filter commits with extra technical info, and having a beginners
        list with almost no entries, so we are not addressing properly
        the transitions and middle places between users and developers:
        you have too much info or too little. More granular information
        is a place where forums like discourse could help.</p>
      <p>Cheers,</p>
      <p>Offray<br>
      </p>
      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/02/18 12:53, Ron Teitelbaum
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAEzdQ-dajF9cyp-DRd5UHmD2_87eWAZovncshizGeGAGDp+E7Q@mail.gmail.com">
        <div dir="ltr">Hi Offray, 
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I like the idea of forums. Always have.  Did the
            Manjaro community have trouble with spam?  How is it
            moderated?  Email lists seem to be less vulnerable to spam,
            although we have received some in the past.  Forums seem to
            need constant moderation to ensure they are not invaded by
            spam.  I seem to remember there was a forum way back when.
            There is a forum interface to the mailing list already: <a
              href="http://forum.world.st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.html"
              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://forum.world.<wbr>st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.<wbr>html</a>. 
            What do you think Discourse would add to the community over
            what we have already?  </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Also, note there are a few other places where we sort of
            gather. #IRC #squeak <a
              href="http://tunes.org/%7Enef/logs/squeak/"
              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/<wbr>squeak/</a>
            don't see much going on there.  Google Plus Group: <a
              href="https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/111117917267462353507"
              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://plus.google.<wbr>com/u/1/communities/<wbr>111117917267462353507</a>.
            Twitter <a href="https://twitter.com/SqueakSmalltalk"
              moz-do-not-send="true">https://twitter.com/SqueakSmalltalk</a>.
            Planet Squeak: <a href="http://planet.squeak.org/"
              moz-do-not-send="true">http://planet.squeak.org/</a> and <a
              href="https://news.squeak.org/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://news.squeak.org/</a>
            wow it has been a long time since I made a post!  </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I imagine someone probably did a slack channel.  Yes I
            was correct: <a href="http://squeak.org/community/"
              moz-do-not-send="true">http://squeak.org/community/</a> </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>All the best,</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Ron Teitelbaum</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 11:32 AM,
              Herbert König <span dir="ltr"><<a
                  href="mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net" target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">herbertkoenig@gmx.net</a>></span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                  <p>Hi Offray,</p>
                  <p><br>
                  </p>
                  <p>Squeak dev always has been the place to be and
                    newbies was just invented to have a lower hurdle on
                    entry.</p>
                  <p>For the automatic traffic there's (spam) filters in
                    your mail program.</p>
                  <p><br>
                  </p>
                  <p>Please feel free move over, we are not so many in
                    our community that separate lists are needed.</p>
                  <p><br>
                  </p>
                  <p>My 2c.<br>
                  </p>
                  <p>Cheers,</p>
                  <p><br>
                  </p>
                  <p>Herbert<br>
                  </p>
                  <div>
                    <div
                      class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001h5">
                      <br>
                      <div
class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145moz-cite-prefix">Am
                        06.02.2018 um 17:13 schrieb Offray Vladimir Luna
                        Cárdenas:<br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <p>Hi Ron,</p>
                        <p>I'm just in the beginners list (when I
                          subscribed I was a beginner and I never
                          thought of myself as a developer). I have seen
                          the dev list, but there is a lot of automatic
                          mail send by commit activity. I'm not sure if
                          I want such traffic in my mail inbox.</p>
                        <p>Anyway, having proper feedback places is
                          important and I wonder if some kind of middle
                          place between developers and beginners is
                          needed. In the Pharo case, the users list has
                          pretty good activity without details about
                          commits. Maybe beginners is misleading and we
                          need a users list or setup something like
                          discourse[1] to improve communication. In the
                          Manjaro case, it has worked pretty well[2]
                          (but, of course, infrastructure by itself is
                          not a warranty).<br>
                        </p>
                        [1] <a
class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145moz-txt-link-freetext"
                          href="https://www.discourse.org/"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.discourse.org/</a><br>
                        [2] <a
class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145moz-txt-link-freetext"
                          href="http://forum.manjaro.org/"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://forum.manjaro.org/</a><br>
                        <p>Cheers,</p>
                        <p>Offray<br>
                        </p>
                        <br>
                        <div
class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145moz-cite-prefix">On
                          06/02/18 10:51, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:<br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div dir="ltr">Offray,
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Are you signed up on the squeak-dev
                              mailing list or just beginners?  I think
                              the members of the Squeak-Dev list would
                              enjoy having you there!  You would also
                              get more feedback from that group.</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>All the best,</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>Ron</div>
                          </div>
                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                            <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 6, 2018
                              at 9:50 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
                              <span dir="ltr"><<a
                                  href="mailto:offray@riseup.net"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">offray@riseup.net</a>></span>
                              wrote:<br>
                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                                0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                                rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Sorry
                                for the typo, I meant Joseph.<br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                On 05/02/18 21:09, Offray Vladimir Luna
                                Cárdenas wrote:<br>
                                > Hi Joshep,<br>
                                <div
class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145HOEnZb">
                                  <div
class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145h5"><br>
                                    ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                                    Beginners mailing list<br>
                                    <a
                                      href="mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">Beginners@lists.squeakfoundati<wbr>on.org</a><br>
                                    <a
                                      href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners"
                                      rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.squeakfoundation.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/beginners</a><br>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </blockquote>
                            </div>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                          <fieldset
class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
                          <br>
                          <pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
Beginners mailing list
<a class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Beginners@lists.squeakfoundati<wbr>on.org</a>
<a class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.squeakfoundation.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/beginners</a>
</pre>
                        </blockquote>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <fieldset
class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
                        <br>
                        <pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
Beginners mailing list
<a class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Beginners@lists.squeakfoundati<wbr>on.org</a>
<a class="gmail-m_5436921358054315141gmail-m_5053930827841048001m_-1672174032774368145moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.squeakfoundation.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/beginners</a>
</pre>
                      </blockquote>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <br>
                ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                Beginners mailing list<br>
                <a href="mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Beginners@lists.squeakfoundati<wbr>on.org</a><br>
                <a
                  href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners"
                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.squeakfoundation.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/beginners</a><br>
                <br>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <br>
          </div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
        <br>
        <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Beginners mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org" moz-do-not-send="true">Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners</a>
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Beginners mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org">Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners">http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>