[Seaside] Smalltalk/Squeak/Seaside newbie questions/comments..
rickf at ca-flower.com
Fri Dec 23 20:51:04 CET 2005
Hi all.. I've not looked at Smalltalk in a good long time -- probably for
more than 15 years and only then as part of a college languages class so
I don't really remember anything. Anyway, I managed to stumble across
Seaside by accident (it was mentioned on a PHP blog I was reading) and
it sounds like a really great system for doing web-apps. I've currently
got a web-app in development using PHP + Mojavi (an MVC framework),
Apache and MySQL. In doing my requisite homework on all things Seaside
and reading some comments you all had in the not-too-distant past, I see
a few hurdles that I'm not too sure how to get past -- perhaps you can
enlighten me or point me in the right direction:
1) I have my site running on a web hosting provider using Apache, but
notice that most people seem to run the Smalltalk web servers instead
of using Apache directly.. I'm not sure I can get my hosting provider
to do that -- is there a write up somewhere that shows how to use
Squeak/Seaside in an Apache environment -- does it require FastCGI
or something else? I ran across some sort of FastCGI Smalltalk
conduit of sorts, but it came with no docs and leaves a newbie like me
feeling less than enthused.
2) Memory usage -- I've read several comments about memory/performance
issues with Squeak in the not too distant past -- had to do with
garbage collection if I recall.. What's the chance that this will bite
the average web-app on a regular basis and is it still an issue?
3) MySQL -- I've got a database consisting of about 15 tables worth of
data that I currently need for my PHP web-app.. I see that a lot of
Squeak/Smalltalk users seem to prefer PostgreSQL instead and that
the MySQL stuff is a bit dated and perhaps not complete.. Is there
any write up on how to use the MySQL driver with Squeak/Seaside
and am I going to have license issues with this setup since I saw
a note on the Squeak Map indicating some license issue. In my case,
my web-app will not be open-source and will be more commercial in
4) On the Web hosting side -- have any of you had problems with
hosting providers not being interested in having you run a Smalltalk
based app on their servers since it's "different" than the standard?
Has that required you to find a new provider?
5) Squeak vs. VisualWorks Smalltalk -- I've read a few comments here and
there indicating that perhaps VisualWorks is faster than Squeak for
some operations.. Is this correct and what is the overall thinking
of one over the other?
6) On the VisualWorks side -- If I want to write a commercial app that
runs on a web-server on a hosting providers hardware, I gather I
would need to install the VM + application on their box to run the
app. In this case, how does the licensing work, and what sort of
$$ am I looking at for the cost? I read through the license docs
for VisualWorks and didn't get any warm fuzzies about what model
my development goals fit into whether it's some sort of corporate
plan or something else. In my case, my site would be hosted on a
single server, but would have potentially hundreds of people using
it.. Too bad the makers of VisualWorks are somewhat mysterious about
their pricing, etc.
7) Comparing Seaside to an MVC framework like Mojavi -- Mojavi has the
logic separated out by display,business,etc.. I've yet to get too far
into a Seaside tutorial, but is Seaside going to be similar in this
regard or is it a new paradigm to learn (aside from learning
I think that's about all of the loaded questions I can think of for now..
Hopefully I'll get answers to some of the more pertinent ones at least.
Thanks and Merry Christmas!
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