[Q] Can I use Magma without Morphic System? (Re: [Seaside] Goods)

[Chun Sungjin]

Hi,

I'm currently using 3.8 based MVC only image + Seaside. Can I use  
Magma without Morphic System?

Thanks in advance

On Aug 17, 2006, at 2:00 PM, Chris Muller wrote:

> I would just like to clarify, the Magma set up is "one-click" and
> always has been.  Ramiro was describing his experience loading the
> "queries beta" version a couple of weeks ago, which was not one-click.
> That version was finished and announced last week, it is no longer in
> beta, is therefore now a one-click install.
>
> I would also like to clarify the performance comment.  Ramiro, I
> profiled your
>
>   NYSE instance getValuesFor: 'aapl' from: ('1/1/2004' asDate) to:
> ('1/1/2006' asDate)
>
> which addeds 504 objects and would like to clarify a couple of points
> about the 33 second profile:
>
>   - 5.4 seconds was spent getting the data from Yahoo
>   - 18.1 seconds spent doing 504 queries on the MagmaSet to determine
> if the object being added already exists.  (NOTE 6 of which in
> DateAndTime>>#asUTC).
>   - 10 seconds for the actual commit
>
> MagmaSets are expensive to add to, because every object requires it to
> query to see if that object already exists.  You could use a
> MagmaCollection here and would see the time cut in half, 5.4 seconds
> for Yahoo and 10 seconds for the commmit.
>
> This is why I cringe at public declarations about performance.  One
> persons 260 objects is different than anothers.  I think the only
> meaningful way to describe or compare performance is with 1)
> well-explained execution contexts (hardware, etc.), 2) detailed
> descriptions of the task being measured, and 3) what performance- 
> tuning
> considerations (which, in Magma's case, can have a 10X improvement)
> were done.
>
> MagmaBenchmarker attempts to address these items:
>
>   1) the execution context includes computer, cpu, speed, memory, and
> disk
>   2) the benchmarking methods names are descriptive in what they do
>   3) the implementation of the methods can be examined to see what
> performance tuning mechanisms were used, if any
>
> To see this output for the latest Magma:
>
>   http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/5606
>
> I certainly don't want to proclaim Magma is blazing fast, but the
> MagmaBenchmarker on the current version just demonstrated, on my circa
> 2004 laptop, insertion of 1000 objects (100 at a time, 10 commits)  
> into
> a MagmaCollection in 4 seconds flat (5 without WriteBarrier).
>
> Understanding performance requires context, lots of context..
>
>  - Chris
>
>
>
>> Magma
>> ======
>>
>> Good:
>> 	New cool query syntax (no one else has this).
>> 	Excellent support from Chris Müller and list.
>> 	Clean syntax
>> 	Indexes for various classes (Dates, Strings, Numbers, etc.)
>> 	ReadStrategies
>> 	Native Smalltalk
>> 	Integration package to use with Seaside.
>> Bad:
>> 	Hard to set up (the latest beta version with queries at least)
>> 	Insert & update performance (inserting  ~260 items on a magma
>> collection takes >30'' on a single commit)
>> 	
>>
>>
>> GOODS
>> ======
>>
>> Good:
>> 	Very simple to set up
>> 	Cleanest / less intrusive syntax of all ODBs I've seen
>> 	Pretty fast on inserts (on my not so large data sets at least)
>> 	Distributable / multi-language
>> Bad:
>> 	Maintained by a single guy (I'm always scared of this... what if he
>>
>> decides to run a restaurant?)
>> 	Not native Smalltalk
>> 	No indexes (must use Avi's BTree)
>> 	No queries
>>
>>
>> OmniBase
>> ========
>> Good:
>> 	Seems to have been widely tested in several smalltalks
>> Bad:
>> 	Locking problem on Macs and Linux with Squeak has not been resolved.
>>
>> Hence, if you use Squeak, Windows is the only alternative.  I've
>> tested it yesterday on my Mac and the locking issues were still
>> there.  I don't know if it is still this way under Linux.
>> 	Ugliest syntax (for me, at least)
>> 	No query language.
>> 	Licencing? (don't really know about this)
>>
>>
>> But it would be great, at least for me, to hear what others been
>> through when they decided to implement an ODB.
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> r.
>
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