[Seaside] Re: Application/Session Objects
dev at archonet.com
Thu Feb 23 10:45:41 UTC 2006
stephane ducasse wrote:
> On 22 févr. 06, at 18:46, Richard Huxton wrote:
>> Seaside looks very interesting, and I like the interactive debugging,
>> closures continuations etc. Hate the Smalltalk syntax,
> I do not want to open a can of worms or a language war but help you.
Don't worry about me not liking Smalltalk syntax - I'm a Perl programmer
> Here are a bunch of tricks I used to explain the syntax
> Just a trick you put [ ] around expressions when you do not know in
> advance the number of times it will be executed.
> (jj isNil)
> ifTrue: [ ]
> 4 timesRepeat: [ ]
It's these two I don't like - less because of [ ] for a closure (good
as anything else - simple so it encourages their use) but the <small
object> <selection-message> <code> pattern. It grates every time I
> #(1 2 3) do: [:each | ...] separatedBy: [ ]
Whereas this doesn't bother me in the slightest. I think it's the
"complexity" of the object you're dealing with. It feels reasonable to
me to ask a collection to do something for each of its members, less so
for a boolean.
I'm clearly out-voted on this one, since I've been exposed to it for
almost 20 years, haven't changed my mind but am now outnumbered by
generations of object-oriented programmers who came after me.
> Then you only put parenthese to distinguish between messages having the
> same priority:
> kkk isNil
> ifTrue: 
> (kkk includes: #a)
> ifTrue: 
> In fact I kind of really like the syntax.
> aDict at: #stef put: #fun
Ah, now here I think it's too verbose for such a common activity.
Lists/hashes should be as basic as strings/numbers, but like I said, I'm
from a Perl background.
Many of my problems are down to the consistent nature of Smalltalk. I
can see how it's easy to port to a new platform, and it's easy to break
apart someone else's code too. It's just not "elegant" as a language.
The easy access to closures/continuations and the development
environment outweigh that though.
>> the way underscore has been stolen and I'm worried about
>> deployment/management and performance issues. It's early days though,
>> so this is still very much first impressions for me.
> In Squeak 3.9 the _ is given back to you :).
Ah, now that is good news. I've gone through and changed my system fonts
already, since I'm referring to external identifiers with underscores
and my eyes keep picking them up as assignments.
> For deployment and management, the gurus around me (lukas and adrian)
> are really enjoying the online, on the fly
> update of code while the system is running....
I'll have to finish my first application and deploy before I can
comment, but it's not quite as command-line friendly as some.
> Now do not hesitate to give feedback and code to the community, we will
> pay attention that it is not lost
It's certainly a friendly and helpful community, which is always
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