[Seaside] Rails and Seaside

robert gairns r.gairns at btinternet.com
Fri Jan 6 20:20:37 CET 2006

I'm a total newbie to Seaside but still wonder if its founders might concede 
legitimate drawbacks to the adopted UI-rendering approach, i.e., embedding 
HTML layout (nicely OO-ified) in Snalltalk code. Or is "Turtles All the Way 
Down" just too compelling?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ramon Leon" <rleon at insario.com>
To: "The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general discussion." 
<seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 6:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Seaside] Rails and Seaside

> I think Avi nailed it pretty well in his "Turtles All The Way
> Down" post.
> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/userblogs/avi/blogView?showComm
> Its not just the language, it's the environment.
> I love the seaside method of finding/fixing problems.
> Program halts, ugly web page shows, click debug, switch
> windows, find problem, fix, click proceed, switch to
> Monticello window, save out new version to web based
> repository.  At no time did the app go down or did I wait for
> some reinitialization.  I also love that I can wander around
> with my project (2 files .image and .changes) and 3 VMs on a
> keychain and work on it wherever.
> Now if we just had a better database story...

Yup, that's why Seaside's got me, no matter the problem, I fix it in one
language, Smalltalk.  I get paid to work in ASP.net, and let me tell
you, I'm so sick of having to work in and constantly switch back and
forth between HTML, XSLT, XML, C# and SQL, all so I can do 10x the work
I'd have to do in Squeak to get an app that's half as cool and takes way
long to write.

Ruby reduces the syntactic annoyances, but it keeps all the
environmental annoyances, it's the same old architecture, lot's of text
files, HTML templating, SQL, same old stuff, just on a diet, it's
evolution.  Seaside is revolution, a new better way.  Ruby is the bridge
by which Java/C# programmers can approach Smalltalk without losing their
minds, so it only helps Smalltalk in the long run.  In the mean time,
Seaside is a secret weapon, I don't mind it staying that way.
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