[Seaside] Seaside / smalltalk: tools and scalability

[Göran Krampe]

Hi!

> Hi
>
> Smalltalk comes in different flavors/dialects much like Lisp. Squeak
> is one such dialect that is free as in beer.

I would say much more free than "beer" - especially given the latest
relicensing, but it was pretty darn free (as in freedom) before that even.

Perhaps you mixed up the metaphor?

And further, some answers for Squeak specifically:

> 2007/4/17, Jared Nuzzolillo <onceuponapriori at gmail.com>:
>> > >  So, here are some questions:
>> > >
>> > > 1. Should refactoring using the R button on the Class Browser work?
>> As a
>> > > test, I tried to rename the stop method of the WAKom class? I get an
>> error
>> > > message to the effect of "doesNotUnderstand
>> #getArgumentPermutation". Is
>> > > there some other image I should use? I am running windows for
>> development. I
>> > > am open to using another, free VM instead of Squeak, if it works
>> better
>> out
>> > > of the box. I need a rich class and method browser, refactoring,
>> debugging,
>> > > syntax highlighting and preferably code completion. I don't mind
>> installing
>> > > "packages" to the image either.

There are tons of browsers and tools for Squeak, I am unsure of the status
of RB in say Squeak 3.9, since I seldom use it. But Chris just posted a
prepped dev image, and Damien Cassou also maintains a prepped dev image
that might be worthwhile to track. I tend to personally only track vanilla
releases and add my own tools as I see fit - but that is just a matter of
taste.

>> > > 2. Are there any examples of Seaside (or another, similar smalltalk
>> based
>> > > server) running heavy-load sites? What is the largest (in terms of
>> load)
>> > > site and what sort of traffic does it receive (or alexa rating if
>> > > available)?

My guess is that dabbledb.com is the one to check out. Also, for tips and
tricks in scaling Seaside, do check out Ramon's blog:

http://onsmalltalk.com

>> Is it trivial to set up?

It is trivial to set up for playing and development - but not trivial to
set up for large scaling. But not really hard either I guess (by reading
descriptions from Avi and Ramon).

>> Part of this exercise is to
>> determine
>> > > whether moving to Smalltalk is a viable solution performance-wise as
>> opposed
>> > > to moving to java as is currently being planned by my employer.

IMHO it all boils down to development effort. Seaside and Smalltalk simply
ROCKS when it comes to advanced, dynamic, complex web apps. And all the
money you easily save there (compared to say a Java setup) can be spent a
little bit on other things that may be lacking.

>> > > 3. I absolutely need to have good source control that will work for,
>> say,
>> > > two dozen developers working on one project. Is there some thing
>> nice
>> that
>> > > works with #1 above?

VisualWorks has its Store stuff - I guess it is good.

And Squeak has Monticello which is really good and nice. I haven't used it
in a larger setup but given its nature I don't foresee any problems - on
the contrary - since it is so darn good at branching/merging having
multiple devs working in parallell on different tasks/parts is very
simple.

>> > > 4. Is there any educational material I just "have to" devour? A
>> video?
>> > > Tutorial or pdf? A classic text?

Ehm, probably plenty. :) Others probably have better pointers. If you are
looking for general Smalltalk stuff - Stephane's free books are of course
very nice, see first link at:

http://www.squeak.org/Documentation/

>> > > Thank you, all. I am really exciting to begin this journey, and I
>> hoping
>> to
>> > > get a head start from your collective wisdom.

Feel free to ask more - the Squeak community is a helpful and happy bunch.
And the Seasiders too of course! (largely overlapping)

regards, Göran