[Seaside] Seaside / smalltalk: tools and scalability

[Philippe Marschall]

I'm just talking about how things are today. Given that Java was open
sourced I wouldn't be surprised if one day VisualWorks or Dolphin were
open sourced. But that's not how things are today. At one point we
will probably have Monticello 2 and atomic loading, but not today and
not tomorrow.

Philippe

2007/4/18, stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse at free.fr>:
> Philippe this will change. :)
> And squeak will be even cooler.
>
> Stef
>
> > The last time I checked Squeak 3.8 and 3.9 were still under Squeak
> > License which is neither OpenSource(tm) nor accepted by the FSF. If
> > SqueakL is so cool like we have been told all those years, why
> > relicense?
> >
> >> And further, some answers for Squeak specifically:
> >>
> >> > 2007/4/17, Jared Nuzzolillo <onceuponapriori at gmail.com>:
> >> >> > >  So, here are some questions:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > 1. Should refactoring using the R button on the Class
> >> Browser work?
> >> >> As a
> >> >> > > test, I tried to rename the stop method of the WAKom class?
> >> I get an
> >> >> error
> >> >> > > message to the effect of "doesNotUnderstand
> >> >> #getArgumentPermutation". Is
> >> >> > > there some other image I should use? I am running windows for
> >> >> development. I
> >> >> > > am open to using another, free VM instead of Squeak, if it
> >> works
> >> >> better
> >> >> out
> >> >> > > of the box. I need a rich class and method browser,
> >> refactoring,
> >> >> debugging,
> >> >> > > syntax highlighting and preferably code completion. I don't
> >> mind
> >> >> installing
> >> >> > > "packages" to the image either.
> >>
> >> There are tons of browsers and tools for Squeak, I am unsure of
> >> the status
> >> of RB in say Squeak 3.9, since I seldom use it. But Chris just
> >> posted a
> >> prepped dev image, and Damien Cassou also maintains a prepped dev
> >> image
> >> that might be worthwhile to track. I tend to personally only track
> >> vanilla
> >> releases and add my own tools as I see fit - but that is just a
> >> matter of
> >> taste.
> >>
> >> >> > > 2. Are there any examples of Seaside (or another, similar
> >> smalltalk
> >> >> based
> >> >> > > server) running heavy-load sites? What is the largest (in
> >> terms of
> >> >> load)
> >> >> > > site and what sort of traffic does it receive (or alexa
> >> rating if
> >> >> > > available)?
> >>
> >> My guess is that dabbledb.com is the one to check out. Also, for
> >> tips and
> >> tricks in scaling Seaside, do check out Ramon's blog:
> >>
> >> http://onsmalltalk.com
> >>
> >> >> Is it trivial to set up?
> >>
> >> It is trivial to set up for playing and development - but not
> >> trivial to
> >> set up for large scaling. But not really hard either I guess (by
> >> reading
> >> descriptions from Avi and Ramon).
> >>
> >> >> Part of this exercise is to
> >> >> determine
> >> >> > > whether moving to Smalltalk is a viable solution
> >> performance-wise as
> >> >> opposed
> >> >> > > to moving to java as is currently being planned by my
> >> employer.
> >>
> >> IMHO it all boils down to development effort. Seaside and
> >> Smalltalk simply
> >> ROCKS when it comes to advanced, dynamic, complex web apps. And
> >> all the
> >> money you easily save there (compared to say a Java setup) can be
> >> spent a
> >> little bit on other things that may be lacking.
> >>
> >> >> > > 3. I absolutely need to have good source control that will
> >> work for,
> >> >> say,
> >> >> > > two dozen developers working on one project. Is there some
> >> thing
> >> >> nice
> >> >> that
> >> >> > > works with #1 above?
> >>
> >> VisualWorks has its Store stuff - I guess it is good.
> >>
> >> And Squeak has Monticello which is really good and nice. I haven't
> >> used it
> >> in a larger setup but given its nature I don't foresee any
> >> problems - on
> >> the contrary - since it is so darn good at branching/merging having
> >> multiple devs working in parallell on different tasks/parts is very
> >> simple.
> >
> > As long as our packages don't get too big. Once that happens
> > PackageInfo becomes a major speed bottleneck.
> >
> >> >> > > 4. Is there any educational material I just "have to"
> >> devour? A
> >> >> video?
> >> >> > > Tutorial or pdf? A classic text?
> >>
> >> Ehm, probably plenty. :) Others probably have better pointers. If
> >> you are
> >> looking for general Smalltalk stuff - Stephane's free books are of
> >> course
> >> very nice, see first link at:
> >>
> >> http://www.squeak.org/Documentation/
> >>
> >> >> > > Thank you, all. I am really exciting to begin this journey,
> >> and I
> >> >> hoping
> >> >> to
> >> >> > > get a head start from your collective wisdom.
> >>
> >> Feel free to ask more - the Squeak community is a helpful and
> >> happy bunch.
> >> And the Seasiders too of course! (largely overlapping)
> >>
> >> regards, Göran
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Seaside mailing list
> >> Seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Seaside mailing list
> > Seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
> _______________________________________________
> Seaside mailing list
> Seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>