[Seaside] another reason Rails gets market share and Seaside
jacaetevha at gmail.com
Tue Jul 17 13:06:01 UTC 2007
Sorry, I thought that was obvious...
Yes, that is one of the barriers. Try using Rails on an existing
database (even if it doesn't match the Rails assumptions, you can
override how it does things). You will see that the ActiveRecord is a
very powerful concept. Try writing complex SQL joins in Seaside and
then in Rails -- you will immediately see the difference.
Following is how you query for a Project model and get the associated
Tasks, Concerns and StakeHolders for that particular project.
Project.find(:first, :includes => [:tasks, :concerns, :stake_holders],
:conditions => ['name like ?', params[:project_name]])
- OR even easier -
Project.find_by_name(params[:project_name], :includes => [:tasks,
In Seaside: <I don't want to write out all the different ways to do
the joins/associations for all of the databases that are supported
out-of-the-box by Rails>
I then might say that another ease-of-use Rails has going for it is
the auto-communication between controllers and views -- but that would
suppose that I like the templating way of doing things. I don't --
but if I have to use it Rails sure does make it easy to do.
I really think the Rails guys hit on something powerful (from a
market-share point of view) when they decided on "convention over
On 7/17/07, Marcin Tustin <mm3 at zepler.net> wrote:
> I don't understand what you think the barrier is here. Is it that you mean
> that it is relatively difficult to create a web interface to an existing SQL
> On 7/17/07, Jason Rogers <jacaetevha at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The bulk of my development work has been in Java, Smalltalk and Ruby
> > (~60%, ~10%, ~30% respectively). I have done quite a bit of
> > development in Rails. With this background, I would like to offer one
> > more reason why I think Rails gets more market-share than our beloved
> > Seaside.
> > Hypothesis: many developers get sucked into Rails and the RailsWay
> > simply because it's so easy to prototype new apps or get quick and
> > dirty solutions running.
> > Most of my Rails apps have started their lives as
> > quick-n-dirty-solutions-to-a-very-present-problem. Rails
> makes it
> > very easy to do that. Sadly, Seaside doesn't. With the work Alan
> > Knight is putting into Glorp, and the ActiveRecord equivalent for it,
> > this may get easier. Like it or not, there are a lot of data sets out
> > there in relational databases that need front ends -- Seaside falls
> > down here just a little.
> > I may be branded a heretic here, but for those types of apps I will
> > most likely continue using Rails. For my personal apps (or the apps
> > that don't have such tight deadlines) I will continue using Seaside.
> > I don't really think file-based vs. image-based is the big issue.
> > Developers are (by and far) a lazy lot and they want solutions that
> > help them to do more with less. Of course, we can argue that the
> > image-based development of Smalltalk really does do that, but the
> > reality is that it doesn't /feel/ like that when you start using
> > Seaside without having a significant amount of development experience
> > in Smalltalk already. Typing the arguments on a web page doesn't sell
> > it -- people have to feel it.
> > Conclusion: I think that the less barriers we have to the lazy lot,
> > the more they will consider using Seaside for their small projects.
> > Once you get them doing that they will be more likely to choose
> > Seaside for their larger projects.
> > --
> > Jason Rogers
> > "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live;
> > yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life
> > which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of
> > the Son of God, who loved me, and gave
> > himself for me."
> > Galatians 2:20
> > _______________________________________________
> > Seaside mailing list
> > Seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> Seaside mailing list
> Seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live;
yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life
which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of
the Son of God, who loved me, and gave
himself for me."
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