[Seaside] another reason Rails gets market share andSeasidedoesn't

Richard Eng richard.eng at rogers.com
Wed Jul 18 16:40:10 UTC 2007

I'm not sure I agree with this. I'm a Seaside newbie, but I'm also a *web
application* newbie. The commercial web app that I'm developing is my very
first web app of any kind! Does this mean that I should be writing it in PHP
or Java (the conventional, mainstream route)? Of course not!

The learning curve for a PHP or Java web framework is no less severe than
for Seaside. I've looked at CakePHP and Java Tapestry, for example, and they
send shivers up my spine.

(Note that I am a veteran software developer. I've been writing software for
over 20 years, mostly device drivers in C. Recently, I did a little bit of
work with C# and .NET.)

So if I'm going to climb a learning curve, it might as well be Seaside's. At
least I recognize the enormous advantages of this framework. (Twenty years
of software engineering experience tend to confer a wee bit of wisdom.  :-)

Having said all that, I must confess I find many things about
Seaside/Smalltalk puzzling. So you will forgive me if I ask stupid questions
from time to time...  :-)


On 7/18/07 12:10 PM, "Ramon Leon" <ramon.leon at allresnet.com> wrote:

>> Thanks Ramon.  I agree with your comments, but I wasn't brave
>> enough to say "forget all the newbies".  Having said that
>> though, there are a lot of newbies on this list who are
>> interested.  Your blog and other tutorials go a long way to
>> helping them get into it, and hopefully see the light.
>> --
>> Jason Rogers
> I'm not totally saying forget the newbies, I just want to point out that not
> every framework has to be targeted at "newbie programmers".  Someone has to
> cater to more experienced programmers who actually care about silly things
> like *flexible* architecture and plugability rather than just how fast can I
> puke out a table onto a screen.
> Programming well isn't easy, and it's almost a disservice to make things
> look too easy and trick people into thinking they can do something they
> really shouldn't be.  Anyone who doesn't instantly see the intrinsic value
> of Seaside probably isn't ready for it.  They haven't worked in enough other
> frameworks to really feel the pain that makes Seaside so attractive.  I
> don't want to scare anyone away, but from my experience, Seaside isn't a
> framework for beginners, PHP owns that market.
> Ramon Leon
> http://onsmalltalk.com
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