[Seaside] another reason Rails gets market share andSeasidedoesn't

David Mitchell david.mitchell at gmail.com
Wed Jul 18 17:54:41 UTC 2007

I disagree that you wouldn't want to do Smalltalk if you don't know
OO. Smalltalk is a great first OO language (taught lots on the job).
If anything, Smalltalk is distasteful to others who've used other
languages and maybe never really got objects (seen it over and over
teaching OO to people who've learned it on their own).

Seaside appeals to me in the same way VA Java's (less elegant) web
framework appealed to me. It makes web development more like
traditional OO development. This is great if you like traditional OO

If you like PHP or Rails or servlets, that's cool too. It's just different.

On 7/18/07, Chad Nantais <cnantais at gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree with Ramon 100% on this.
> I made my way across the spectrum from
> PHP->Python->Ruby->Smalltalk/Seaside over a 6 year timespan.  It was
> the reduction of pain and increase in pleasure that motivated my
> movement each time.  And, I don't think there's anything more pleasing
> and painless than Seaside at this time.
> Couldn't newbieizing Seaside detract from qualities that attract more
> advanced programmers, or at least make it less "fit-for-purpose" for
> the advanced?
> Chad
> On 7/18/07, Ramon Leon <ramon.leon at allresnet.com> wrote:
> > > Thanks Ramon.  I agree with your comments, but I wasn't brave
> > > enough to say "forget all the newbies".  Having said that
> > > though, there are a lot of newbies on this list who are
> > > interested.  Your blog and other tutorials go a long way to
> > > helping them get into it, and hopefully see the light.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jason Rogers
> >
> > I'm not totally saying forget the newbies, I just want to point out that not
> > every framework has to be targeted at "newbie programmers".  Someone has to
> > cater to more experienced programmers who actually care about silly things
> > like *flexible* architecture and plugability rather than just how fast can I
> > puke out a table onto a screen.
> >
> > Programming well isn't easy, and it's almost a disservice to make things
> > look too easy and trick people into thinking they can do something they
> > really shouldn't be.  Anyone who doesn't instantly see the intrinsic value
> > of Seaside probably isn't ready for it.  They haven't worked in enough other
> > frameworks to really feel the pain that makes Seaside so attractive.  I
> > don't want to scare anyone away, but from my experience, Seaside isn't a
> > framework for beginners, PHP owns that market.
> >
> > Ramon Leon
> > http://onsmalltalk.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
> >
> --
> Chad Nantais
> http://myspace.com/chadnantais
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