[Seaside] another reason Rails gets market share andSeasidedoesn't

Conrad Taylor conradwt at gmail.com
Sat Jul 21 20:01:28 UTC 2007

Hi, you need to learn the language before you can truly start to learn a
framework.  Many people hear the buzz about new technology like Seaside and
try to learn it without the necessary requirement of having learned
Smalltalk and OOD.  Thus, I would invest some time in learning the language
first and the framework second.  My suggestion isn't directed at you but
most of the new Seaside developers coming from languages other than
Good luck to ALL,


On 7/18/07, Richard Eng <richard.eng at rogers.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure I agree with this. I'm a Seaside newbie, but I'm also a *web
> application* newbie. The commercial web app that I'm developing is my very
> first web app of any kind! Does this mean that I should be writing it in
> or Java (the conventional, mainstream route)? Of course not!
> The learning curve for a PHP or Java web framework is no less severe than
> for Seaside. I've looked at CakePHP and Java Tapestry, for example, and
> they
> send shivers up my spine.
> (Note that I am a veteran software developer. I've been writing software
> for
> over 20 years, mostly device drivers in C. Recently, I did a little bit of
> work with C# and .NET.)
> So if I'm going to climb a learning curve, it might as well be Seaside's.
> At
> least I recognize the enormous advantages of this framework. (Twenty years
> of software engineering experience tend to confer a wee bit of
> wisdom.  :-)
> )
> Having said all that, I must confess I find many things about
> Seaside/Smalltalk puzzling. So you will forgive me if I ask stupid
> questions
> from time to time...  :-)
> Regards,
> Richard
> On 7/18/07 12:10 PM, "Ramon Leon" <ramon.leon at allresnet.com> wrote:
> >> Thanks Ramon.  I agree with your comments, but I wasn't brave
> >> enough to say "forget all the newbies".  Having said that
> >> though, there are a lot of newbies on this list who are
> >> interested.  Your blog and other tutorials go a long way to
> >> helping them get into it, and hopefully see the light.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jason Rogers
> >
> > I'm not totally saying forget the newbies, I just want to point out that
> not
> > every framework has to be targeted at "newbie programmers".  Someone has
> to
> > cater to more experienced programmers who actually care about silly
> things
> > like *flexible* architecture and plugability rather than just how fast
> can I
> > puke out a table onto a screen.
> >
> > Programming well isn't easy, and it's almost a disservice to make things
> > look too easy and trick people into thinking they can do something they
> > really shouldn't be.  Anyone who doesn't instantly see the intrinsic
> value
> > of Seaside probably isn't ready for it.  They haven't worked in enough
> other
> > frameworks to really feel the pain that makes Seaside so attractive.  I
> > don't want to scare anyone away, but from my experience, Seaside isn't a
> > framework for beginners, PHP owns that market.
> >
> > Ramon Leon
> > http://onsmalltalk.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Seaside mailing list
> > Seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
> _______________________________________________
> Seaside mailing list
> Seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/seaside/attachments/20070721/fd4b8d23/attachment.htm

More information about the Seaside mailing list