[Seaside] image unable to start correctly...space problem?

[Ching de la Serna]

Hi John,

Thanks for your input. You are right in surmising that the OS is
Windows. You have pointed out some very deep insights on memory
allocation.  I do not have the necessary expertise to go deeper into
this problem. I think the reported memory use of 800 MB is somehow
suspicious. I must be doing something wrong here to get these kinds of
numbers.

Thanks,

Ching

On Nov 18, 2007 6:38 PM, John M McIntosh
<johnmci at smalltalkconsulting.com> wrote:
> Ok, let me clarify a few things, no one mentions the operating system,
> although I guess it's Windows based on mention of squeak.exe
>
> (a) most 32bit operating systems won't let you allocate a chunk of
> memory > 2 GB
> (b) some 32bit operating systems won't let you allocate a chunk of
> memory > 1.5 GB
> (c) Until just recently allocating > 2GB of memory for a Squeak image
> would cause the VM to fail.
>
> (c) The Squeak VM (all platforms) come with a upper limit on how big
> the image can grow, what that limit is
> is dependent on which VM and which version.  Some VMs will let you set
> the upper limit when you start the VM
>   http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/105
>
> Someone will need to check but it looks like the windows VM is built
> with a max of 512MB for the image memory
> sqWin32Alloc.h
>
> /*
>     Limit the default size for virtual memory to 512MB to avoid nasty
>     spurious problems when large dynamic libraries are loaded later.
>     Applications needing more virtual memory can increase the size by
>     defining it appropriately - here we try to cater for the common
>     case by using a "reasonable" size that will leave enough space for
>     other libraries.
> */
> #ifndef MAX_VIRTUAL_MEMORY
> #define MAX_VIRTUAL_MEMORY 512*1024*1024
> #endif
>
>
> Solutions to very large squeak images are:
>
> (a) Run a 64 squeak Vm with 32bit Image, that should allow a 4GB
> squeak image.
> (b) Ensure you have all the 32bit VM patchs so you can actually access
>  > 2GB
> (c) The GC logic and how it is tuned is not designed for multi-GB
> image. See
> http://www.esug.org/data/ESUG2006/pres/gctalkjohnmacintosh.pdf
> (d) Ensure the memory upper bound set is sufficient for your needs.
>
>
> On Nov 18, 2007, at 2:15 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote:
>
> > 2007/11/18, Ching de la Serna <ching.dls at gmail.com>:
> >> Hi Philippe,
> >>
> >> I am using Squeak (I presume when you mentioned VW you meant Visual
> >> Works?) I have 4GB of physical memory
> >
> > No I meant VM. You a single process on a 32bit OS will never have 4 GB
> > of virtual memory. In general you are limited to 2 GB of virtual
> > memory unless you play special tricks. This is completely independend
> > of your physical memory size
> >
> > Cheers
> > Philippe
> >
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Ching
> >>
> >> On Nov 18, 2007 6:01 PM, Philippe Marschall
> >> <philippe.marschall at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> 2007/11/18, Ching de la Serna <ching.dls at gmail.com>:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Seaside,
> >>>>
> >>>> This problem has been bedeviling me for a long time now. I could
> >>>> not
> >>>> properly start my image after I got a message, "Space is low".
> >>>> When I
> >>>> checked, Squeak.exe process was reported to be 800,000 MB and I had
> >>>> 2GB of memory. Several other processes were competing with the 2GB
> >>>> memory.
> >>>>
> >>>> I proceeded to try to solve this by adding more memory. Now, I
> >>>> have 4
> >>>> GB of physical memory and my app started fine. When I proceeded
> >>>> to add
> >>>> more methods and tried to save, I lost my app in that it stopped
> >>>> and
> >>>> would not start again. Can anyone tell me what is going on here? my
> >>>> image is a little over 800 MB and my memory manager reports
> >>>> available
> >>>> memory in excess of 2GB
> >>>
> >>> There is a difference between physical and virtual memory. Using
> >>> Squeak images of this size is unknown territory. You'll have to
> >>> use a
> >>> recent VW and are very likely to spend a considerable amount of time
> >>> on garbage collection.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Philippe
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks for the help,
> >>>>
> >>>> Ching
> >>>
>
> --
> =
> =
> =
> ========================================================================
> John M. McIntosh <johnmci at smalltalkconsulting.com>
> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
> =
> =
> =
> ========================================================================
>
>
>
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