[Seaside] Seaside Scaling - How successful?

Rich richsokets at gmail.com
Tue Aug 19 01:54:05 UTC 2008

Hi James, Sean and Ramon!

Thanks for all of your info, links and stories.  I was just scratching  
the surface of this last week and you've pointed me in a direction to  
find out more.  Based on the little that I've seen it looks like  
Seaside is very capable of scaling.  Now its time to read some more  
and come back with more questions.

Thanks again for responding to this request.  I can definitely say I  
have not received the same responsiveness from other frameworks!

On Aug 18, 2008, at 12:55 PM, James Foster wrote:

> Hi Rich,
> Welcome to Seaside.
> If you are looking at 100K sessions per month, that seems to be 2-3  
> per minute (am I doing the math properly?). I believe that most  
> Seaside implementations would easily handle 2-3 pages per second!
> You mentioned GemStone/S (disclaimer: I work for GemStone), and we  
> have done some performance testing using various platforms. See  
> Dale's blog at http://gemstonesoup.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/scaling-seaside-with-gemstones/ 
>  for an analysis done many months ago. The general message is that  
> with a single CPU and 1 GB of RAM for a cache, you can look at a  
> steady state of a million pages per day (~12/second). If you need to  
> scale further, then you need to pay for hardware and software  
> licenses. Getting to 100 pages per second is quite doable; getting  
> to 1000 pages per second would require some higher-end hardware.  
> Dale has set his sites on numbers much beyond that (10K to 100K per  
> second), but it seems it will require something other than an out-of- 
> the-box setup.
> As to hosting, I recently set up a personal site on SliceHost.com. I  
> am paying $20/month for a 256MB slice and running GemStone/S on the  
> server. A very unscientific experiment was to open to the counter  
> application and click it as fast as I could. I got the counter to  
> over 90 in 60 seconds, so was serving at least 1-1/2 pages per  
> second (and that is from a single client over the web; multiple  
> clients should be able to overlap without much overhead).
> As to training, I will be teaching a couple tutorials at OOPSLA in  
> Nashville in October, one is on web technologies in general and the  
> other is on Seaside in particular. That would be one opportunity to  
> get some education.
> James
> On Aug 18, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Rich wrote:
>> I've been looking for a framework that will grow with my company's  
>> projected online growth rate and Seaside looks very interesting.   
>> We developed a Java based web site for a beta product, but I'm not  
>> happy with the results or the amount of code/time required to make  
>> things work with Java.  I'm looking for something that will have a  
>> faster implementation and also scale well as we grow.  I stumbled  
>> across Seaside on Blog post and thought I'd take a look.  Seaside  
>> looks like it has some very nice features and I've been spending  
>> the last couple of days doing some of the tutorials and watching  
>> several of the "Why Seaside" talks.  Thanks to your community for  
>> posting those.
>> I do have some reservations about Seaside and I'm hoping that the  
>> members of this list can point me in the right direction for the  
>> answers or have some of their own success stories.  Here are my  
>> concerns at this point in time:
>> Scalability - How does one scale Seaside?  I've seen GemStone/S to  
>> help with persistence and using Apache for static content.  These  
>> seem very logical, but I'm still wondering what it takes in  
>> hardware to support 1K, 10K and 100K unique visitors per month to a  
>> Seaside based site.  I know this will be code dependent, but I'm  
>> interested in seeing 1) if its even possible to hit in excess of  
>> 100K visitors per month and 2) what it would take from a hardware  
>> perspective to hit this number of visitors.
>> Memory Requirements - I read in the archives, and I'm betting this  
>> is an older pre 2.8 rev memory number, it takes 2M per client for  
>> Seaside.  Is this still the case?
>> Hosting - What is the best way to host Seaside if you want to use  
>> someone else's hardware?  Has anyone implemented an AMI on AWS for  
>> hosting?
>> Success Stories - Any success stories where a site is servicing in  
>> excess of 5K visitors per day using Seaside?  If so, what did it  
>> take to get here and would you do it again?  How are you handling  
>> persistence?  What is your limit based on current hardware/software?
>> Learn Seaside  - What is the best way to learn Seaside for a non- 
>> Smalltalk developer?
>> Any information you could provide that would help me make this  
>> decision would be much appreciated.
>> Thanks for your time.
>> Rich
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