[Seaside] Re: Starting out

James Foster Smalltalk at JGFoster.net
Wed Dec 17 21:46:34 UTC 2008

Hi Michael,

If your question was simply intended to find out if someone who is  
comfortable with Oracle Forms will be able to use Seaside easily, then  
I guess that the answer is "no" (in part, since Seaside doesn't have  
the resources of a company like Oracle supporting it). If your  
question was rhetorical with the intent of shaming the community into  
moving in the direction you want, then you aren't likely to make much  
of an impact. Since your exaggerations seem intended to provoke a  
response (see http://kb.iu.edu/data/afhc.html), you might tell us a  
bit more about yourself and how you would like to contribute to the  


On Dec 17, 2008, at 1:14 PM, Michael Atkisson wrote:

>> Imagine you are a business programmer, although you have heard of  
>> this
>> exciting new environment called Seaside.
>> You would like to create forms that operate like the ones you do at  
>> work
>> such as in Oracle Forms.  On further investigation, perhaps you  
>> manage
>> to make it through the tutorials. But when you go to do something  
>> real,
>> behold you discover that some of the most basic components such
>> displaying a datagrid from rows in a table are missing.  Something  
>> that
>> you probablydo on at least 50% of your forms in Oracle
>> Next you read the mailing list to see if anyone has a solution to the
>> problem. You discover that some people are decidely against putting
>> anything like that in the core because of their purist inclinations.
>> Others are simply say to go learn one of the javascript libraries
>> and do it that way. This is also a dilema as you don't know which one
>> would be good and this stuff isn't all that understandable to you.
>> You don't know much about html, javascript, css, ajax, etc. and you
>> probably don't want to spend a year figuring it all out.
>> All you want to do is solve problems like the ones you have at work  
>> in
>> as straightforward a way as possible.
>> How much further do you think that person is likely to go?
> My Impression of the responses so far.
> Someone might work on these issues some day.
> We have either no interest or they are not important enough
> to address by the people who actually do the programming
> of the seaside system.
> We don't care if the system is useful to normal business
> programmer types, we only care that it is stable.
> Yes, you do have to be a rocket scientist to work on seaside!
> Please start your education immediately and come back
> when you are ready.
> PS: On hand holding issue.  I have never submitted a programming
> issue to Oracle yet.  I do have to read their documentation
> occasionally.
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