[Seaside] A new critical blog discussing Seaside - now concrete proposals

TheSmalltalkBlog at gmx.ch TheSmalltalkBlog at gmx.ch
Sat Apr 18 03:15:47 UTC 2009


Classical ignorant arrogancy - typical for a big US company!

Quod erat demonstradum! No suprise!

Greeting from Europe!


-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:11:45 -0400
> Von: James Robertson <jrobertson at cincom.com>
> An: Seaside - general discussion <seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Seaside] A new critical blog discussing Seaside - now concrete	proposals

> Sigh.  I'll make a final point, and - since I think this will remain  
> pointless - give you all the attention you deserve from here on out.
> 
> If you have the courage of your convictions, then stand behind them.   
> If you won't, then I have to assume you don't actually have any  
> convictions, and are here in some weird attempt to pump up your own  
> ego.  So be it; I've said my piece, and I don't see any reason to  
> engage further.
> 
> You've succeeded; I simply won't take any posts you make this way  
> seriously - in this or any other forum.
> 
> James Robertson
> Cincom Smalltalk Product Evangelist
> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView
> Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 17, 2009, at 10:59 PM, TheSmalltalkBlog at gmx.ch wrote:
> 
> > Mr. Robertson,
> >
> > If the name behind facts is your *only concern* and the precondition  
> > for you to think about serious and well funded critics, then you are  
> > not only outclassing yourself but you are proving that I am  
> > absolutely right to stay anonymous.
> >
> >> It's really, really hard to take anything you say seriously when you
> >> insist on a veil of anonymity.
> > If you, too, judge people's opinion by their name only, you are  
> > issuing an evidence of incapacity for yourself!
> >
> > Several emails within this very first day of my blog have assured me  
> > that it is time to speak out openly - without this stupid US-made  
> > "political correctness" (which means lying) and without false  
> > politeness - about some facts and critics that obviously bother far  
> > more people than just me, most of whom just don't want conflicts and  
> > therefore keep quiet.
> >
> > I have my bad experiences with Smalltalk providers (at this moment I  
> > am keeping names away) and I will not waste my time to fight their  
> > possible pressure.
> >
> > Please, all, let's forget about this personal discussion. I have  
> > added a lot more concrete proposals to my blog. Let's discuss these.
> >
> > Mr. Robertson: You should rather do something about the still very  
> > questionable (to be fiendly) user interface of VisualWorks to  
> > finally unveil the full potential of this tool - instead of  
> > discussing names of critics.
> >
> > Best reagards
> > Mr. Cucumber
> > (I like that nick!)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> >> Datum: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:51:42 -0400
> >> Von: James Robertson <jrobertson at cincom.com>
> >> An: Seaside - general discussion <seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
> >> Betreff: Re: [Seaside] A new critical blog discussing Seaside - now  
> >> concrete	proposals
> >
> >> It's really, really hard to take anything you say seriously when you
> >> insist on a veil of anonymity.  Seaside is not some political group,
> >> and you aren't a revolutionary.  Let us know who you are, and make
> >> your comments constructively, rather than destructively.
> >>
> >> You've already seen how people are taking the kind of rhetoric you're
> >> dishing out, so I guess I'll ask you this: how's that working out for
> >> you so far?
> >>
> >> James Robertson
> >> Cincom Smalltalk Product Evangelist
> >> http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView
> >> Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Apr 17, 2009, at 8:23 PM, TheSmalltalkBlog at gmx.ch wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have added some first concrete proposals to my new critical blog
> >>> on Seaside: http://thesmalltalkblog.blogspot.com
> >>>
> >>> May I also propose to get away from these personal and emotional
> >>> discussions here and to advance to some proper work. I have started
> >>> with my proposals on my blog.
> >>>
> >>> As Keith wrote very wisely (thank you Keith):
> >>>
> >>>> Mr Cucumber is raising issues. We need to identify the actual
> >>>> issues and
> >>> see if they need addressing.<
> >>> See my latest postings on my blog! I am getting into the subjects!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> And Keith, thank you again for this:
> >>>
> >>>> Personally I dont see much anger in his blog, I see honesty as
> >>>> expressed from his perception. In fact there is far less anger
> >>>> expressed here than I would expect.<
> >>>
> >>> I had expected this reaction from the mailing list, because I know
> >>> well how such communities work. They are - at least by the "leading
> >>> members" - social entities where the argument as such is mostly less
> >>> important than who raises it. We are all humans! That's natural but
> >>> not helpful.
> >>>
> >>> Ths is exactly what Sebastian Sastre wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> And you did it annonymously, which leaves your ideas in a weaker
> >>>> position. What did you pretend with that? to create the annonymous
> >>>> seaside critic comunity?
> >>>> leaded by whom?
> >>>
> >>> @Sebastian: If you value an argument from a person who's name you
> >>> know higher because just of that, pardonnez-moi, je m'excuse, but
> >>> this would a clear sign of incompetence.
> >>>
> >>>> leaded by whom?
> >>> Only led by arguments!
> >>>
> >>> This is also another reason why I will stay anonymous. I want to
> >>> improve the subject and not gain personal respect by some community
> >>> (as Thorsten proposed and wrote that this is a prerequisite to be
> >>> taken seriously). Forget it!
> >>>
> >>> Either people believe in my arguments and want to profit from my
> >>> very comprehensive experience - or not. In the latter case we will
> >>> continue in our own style as we did in the past. Nothing lost.
> >>>
> >>> Or I might find some people who are willing to jump onto our boat
> >>> and travel with us, because we share the same believes and goals. In
> >>> this case we would just subclass (as we already did in many cases)
> >>> where major changes are wanted and that's it!
> >>>
> >>> Seaside is too important for us to either forget about it or to live
> >>> with - sorry for my openess - this horrible lausy amateurish and
> >>> undocumented code of Release 2.8. This is unacceptable for us to
> >>> build products upon.
> >>>
> >>> These authors of Seaside (whom I don't know) really had some crazy
> >>> ideas!
> >>>
> >>> Just remember this f... (4-letter word left out with respect to
> >>> those who believe in PC)stupid idiotic url path "/Seaside/do".
> >>>
> >>> What a crazy idea!
> >>>
> >>> It took us several days in the beginning to get this rubbish out! It
> >>> was done in such a fancy way that was really difficult for somebody
> >>> not (yet) knowing the system. And there were many complains about
> >>> that here on the list.
> >>>
> >>> What an idiotic and unrealistic idea! And why so badly implemented.
> >>>
> >>> Now, you can't expect me to have respect for people doing such a
> >>> bullshit! And my expectation from life experience*** was that these
> >>> people would be immune to advice. This is why I chose the public
> >>> block to discuss improvements outside this "social community" here!
> >>>
> >>> Therefore, don't expect me to participate here too frequently. I
> >>> have no time for such discussions. I want to get my project moving
> >>> and that means improving Seaside.
> >>>
> >>> Everybody is welcome to join - and I will be most eager and happy to
> >>> learn from other people's experiences and follow their advice. But
> >>> now on this previous low-level of "Seaside standards". Non, merci!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ***
> >>> I software development experience is very much like cylinder
> >>> capacity in motor construction! There is only one way to improve
> >>> cylinder capacity - and that is by more cylinder capacity!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -- 
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> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
> >>>
> >>
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