[Seaside] A new critical blog discussing Seaside -
ssastre at seaswork.com
Sat Apr 18 11:14:37 UTC 2009
Heh, faaaar from being hurt :)
Technically I don't share your view about any of the problems you mention as
Fortunately Seaside success is not coupled to your cause.
By the way, reading your blog I can see personal allegations is your favourite
way to argument positions.
After the things said and your response to it you are showing zero willing for
reflection about your attitude. A waste.
Of course I'm interested in Seaside to get better. That includes the brand
Seaside getting better which your emails and blog tone *proves the fact* you are
totally ignoring. And you show compromise to a plan that works against it.
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: seaside-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> [mailto:seaside-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org] En nombre
> de Peter Jedermann
> Enviado el: Saturday, April 18, 2009 00:13
> Para: Seaside - general discussion
> Asunto: Re: RE: [Seaside] A new critical blog discussing
> Seaside - nowconcreteproposals
> Not one word on facts! Nothing but personal allegations!
> You seem to be personally hurt! Of course, that was not my
> intention and I am sure that the cause for this must be in
> yourself alone. I wanted nothing but to discuss facts and
> massive problems!
> Anyway, I am not wasting my time on personal discussions!
> Please read my block and when I could convince you of me
> seriousness, then we can continue discussing Smalltalk subjects!
> And if you think that my arguments are wrong, then either
> prove me wrong or ignore me.
> Best regards
> Mr. Cucumber
> (fresh and without any herbicides)
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > Datum: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:44:51 -0300
> > Von: "Sebastian Sastre" <ssastre at seaswork.com>
> > An: "\'Seaside - general discussion\'"
> <seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
> > Betreff: RE: [Seaside] A new critical blog discussing
> Seaside - now concreteproposals
> > > @Sebastian: If you value an argument from a person who's name
> > > you know higher because just of that, pardonnez-moi, je
> > > m'excuse, but this would a clear sign of incompetence.
> > >
> > Well you clearily didn't get it. I've anticipated an ad hominem
> > contra-agumentation and that's why I've ended my response
> clarifiying "I
> > consider good critics as precious".
> > If you read carefully you'll see I didn't say anything
> about who make the
> > critics.
> > But instead of that you've decided to put yourself in the
> position of
> > calling me
> > something like "an incompetent signaler" for no reason from
> an annonymous
> > position.
> > > > leaded by whom?
> > > Only led by arguments!
> > >
> > Please explain how that statement could be possibly be talking about
> > leadership
> > wisdom?
> > If for some reason you still think that you can convert
> anyone just by
> > saying
> > that respond with real life examples of succesful, healthy
> and wealth
> > comunities
> > created from ideas supported by annonymous leaders. I'll be
> all ears.
> > > This is also another reason why I will stay anonymous. I want
> > > to improve the subject and not gain personal respect by some
> > > community (as Thorsten proposed and wrote that this is a
> > > prerequisite to be taken seriously). Forget it!
> > >
> > If you pretend to seduce for colaboration try harder. Play teamwork.
> > That's my
> > whole point. Showing off annonymous modesty will not even be near to
> > compensate
> > the damage your attitude is making to the Seaside brand.
> > Randal answered you with wise questions:
> > "- Do you want Seaside to succeed?
> > - Or do you just want to point out that Seaside has failed
> you, without
> > actually having tried to help Seaside?"
> > I'd add:
> > - Do you like to be another success story by using seaside?
> > - If that happens are you willing to share moral credits?
> > Your current attitude is telling here that you don't
> recognise the efforts
> > that
> > are being invested in Seaside. Also your attitude is
> telling here that not
> > only
> > you are not recognising the efforts but you are also taking actions
> > against
> > those efforts by talking with intense anger in a public
> list and blogging
> > about
> > that in that tone. All that because you decided to react
> like that because
> > you
> > find minor inconveniences in a fantastically productive
> machine called
> > Seaside.
> > I think you are pain for your own reasons and you didn't make your
> > homework to
> > let the water go under the bridge and move on the progress line in
> > teamwork.
> > Think about your competence on that and if you found any
> 'bug' do what a
> > smalltaker knows that works: do something about it and find
> out how to fix
> > that.
> > You know.. this is an open comunity based on volunteerism.
> You can show us
> > you
> > understamd that with several signals. For instance by stopping the
> > corporativistic dictatoship talking. And specially the intolerance
> > talking. If
> > you won't then just reserve that for the internal part of
> your cranium
> > and/or
> > your poor subordinates. It is not only near to be helping
> you to seduce
> > not one
> > volunteer but is also letting you in the position of a
> troll. I think
> > that's the
> > real reason of your annonymousity: you have fear about the
> reaction of the
> > comunity will burn your reputation as a contributor to seaside.
> > That's because you can't inpire anything valuable with this
> actions you've
> > made.
> > Put that toghether with the dictatorship talk and you have
> a perfect lack
> > of
> > leadership know how.
> > That's sad man. Really. Whoever you are, review that for
> your own good.
> > > Either people believe in my arguments and want to profit from
> > > my very comprehensive experience - or not. In the latter case
> > > we will continue in our own style as we did in the past.
> Nothing lost.
> > >
> > > Or I might find some people who are willing to jump onto our
> > > boat and travel with us, because we share the same believes
> > > and goals. In this case we would just subclass (as we already
> > > did in many cases) where major changes are wanted and that's it!
> > >
> > Some people that will never found you because you're
> annonymous right? if
> > you're
> > not kidding then you really should fire the marketer of the
> campaign of
> > your
> > cause right now.
> > > Seaside is too important for us to either forget about it or
> > > to live with - sorry for my openess - this horrible lausy
> > > amateurish and undocumented code of Release 2.8. This is
> > > unacceptable for us to build products upon.
> > >
> > And who is obligating you to do it in the first place?
> > > These authors of Seaside (whom I don't know) really had some
> > > crazy ideas!
> > >
> > > Just remember this f... (4-letter word left out with respect
> > > to those who believe in PC)stupid idiotic url path "/Seaside/do".
> > >
> > > What a crazy idea!
> > >
> > > It took us several days in the beginning to get this rubbish
> > > out! It was done in such a fancy way that was really
> > > difficult for somebody not (yet) knowing the system. And
> > > there were many complains about that here on the list.
> > >
> > > What an idiotic and unrealistic idea! And why so badly
> > >
> > You are just yelling. You are pointless here. Stop trolling, present
> > arguments
> > as a real person and proposals if you want attention from
> adult people.
> > > Now, you can't expect me to have respect for people doing
> > > such a bullshit! And my expectation from life experience***
> > > was that these people would be immune to advice. This is why
> > > I chose the public block to discuss improvements outside this
> > > "social community" here!
> > >
> > Due to your previous contributions I don't think people
> here will miss
> > you.
> > Differently from great leaders you are not making for the community
> > anything to
> > be missed so...
> > > Therefore, don't expect me to participate here too
> > > frequently. I have no time for such discussions. I want to
> > > get my project moving and that means improving Seaside.
> > >
> > > Everybody is welcome to join - and I will be most eager and
> > > happy to learn from other people's experiences and follow
> > > their advice. But now on this previous low-level of "Seaside
> > > standards". Non, merci!
> > >
> > Remember what you've done. The attitude you presented here
> by doing this
> > is
> > contradicting any welcoming not by the content but just by
> the sad way you
> > did
> > it.
> > Go ahed, best success. Contract better marketing campaigns
> for the future
> > sebastian
> > _______________________________________________
> > seaside mailing list
> > seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
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