[Seaside] A new critical blog discussing Seaside - Accessors performance

Sat Apr 18 17:46:09 UTC 2009

There is no performance difference between accessors and direct instVars! 

Was all tested by us many years ago, because this issue was brought up as a concern. Even dicts for instVars don't really make a difference (very little impact and no practical issue compared to the advantages). All for VW only.

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:42:13 +0200
> Von: stephane ducasse <stephane.ducasse at free.fr>
> An: Seaside - general discussion <seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Seaside] A new critical blog discussing Seaside - Comment my blog

> 
> On Apr 18, 2009, at 6:57 PM, Sebastian Heidbrink wrote:
> 
> > Hi Stef!
> >> Just a side remark: seaside code quality is not equal to squeak-one.
> >> So pay attention not to generalize too fast.
> > It wasn't my intention to generalize.
> > I'm no Smalltalk-Guru, but I think that I had very good Smalltalk  
> > tutors past years. Many advices they gave me can be found in the two  
> > books, which I always have around me. "Smalltalk with Style" and  
> > "Smalltalk Patterns"... :-)
> > I'm an absolute VASmalltalk (Visual Age) Guy and there are some  
> > things, which I am missing in Squeak.
> 
> Me too :)
> 
> > Or let me better say, which I prefer and made my first steps in  
> > Squeak quite hard. Most important thing was the possibility to  
> > define methods public and private.
> 
> How do you do that in VA?
> Because in squeak you could and the method was pvt....
> 
> > That makes life a lot easier when it comes to writing core or  
> > framework classes, that need to be used by others. It helps me a lot  
> > to hide class specific coding from coding that may be used by  
> > others. Newbiees are much faster able to find out what the class  
> > does or should do. When you start with a basic Squeak image you are  
> > not really aware of public and private methods...
> > But that doesn't lead me to blameing all Squeak or especially  
> > Seaside to be bullsh..... they are different somehow to codings that  
> > VW and VA users are used to. But the reason of that is the basis.
> > It is a fact that many squeak codings usually access instance  
> > variables directly, what makes some coding hard to read and to  
> > understand.
> > It's a fact, that coding conventions are more agressively assured in  
> > industrial projects, than in open source projects, due to the fact,  
> > that a lot more people get involved in those projects and those  
> > projects may be overworked a lot more than commercial, critical  
> > applications or frameworks.
> > On the other hand I love to browse Squeak projects just because it  
> > is often a good way, seeing other coding styles and algorithms,  
> > where i can teach my self further.
> > Even in Visual Age there are also a lot of classes, which don't  
> > actually use accessors. But as Avi mentioned, these codings are  
> > mainly old core classes and they have their root in early Smalltalk.  
> > I have no idea, whether these codings are different to late 90'ies  
> > coding due to performance reasons, or just a different philosophie  
> > at that time.
> 
> In 1990 there was a dogmas about accessor.
> 
> > Anyhow, since I am programming Smalltalk, I read a lot discussions  
> > about which coding style is better and which is not, but I never saw  
> > a publication which made a performance test on different  
> > implementation styles.
> 
> In VW and VA accessors should have nearly no impact since the jit  
> should do a good job.
> 
> > I guess that one also has to keep in mind, that every SmalltalkVM  
> > has it's own strength and weakness.
> > Getting all this together in the SeasideCore might be impossible.
> > But as far as I know the Seaside Team, they absolutely have an open  
> > ear for improvements.
> > Having other ideas/priorities and just limited sparetime for  
> > following those improvments, is no arrogance.
> >
> >>
> >> I know it since we are cleaning squeak in pharo
> http://www.pharo-project.org
> >> there is still a lot of work but everyday this is getting better.
> >> We already have a lot more tests than most of smalltalk  
> >> distributions. :)
> >> We will run SmallLint on all our packages...
> >
> > I use pharo and really appreciate your effords!
> >
> > Sebastian
> >
> >
> >
> > 	
> > 		
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
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> >
> 
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