[Seaside] rails niceties equivalents?

Dave Bauer dave.bauer at gmail.com
Fri May 15 11:51:21 UTC 2009

On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 4:29 AM, Torsten Bergmann <astares at gmx.de> wrote:

> Since this question comes up from time to time I would answer it like this:
> Seaside is not comparable to Rails. Seaside is a web framework - and
> does a very good job in web development compared to others out there.
> Rails on the other hand allows you to quickly start a simple web
> app right from the database. Depending on your requirements this
> allows you to provide a simple (CRUD) web application within minutes -
> but as the web pages grow or requirements change you may be limited
> with the possibilities of the framework (and maybe the language too).
> Decision there are already made. It's like using a wizard in an IDE,
> you can start easily - but there is a point in time where you
> need control and knowledge back in your hands ;)
> So the Smalltalk world is more comparable to the J2EE world here.
> YOU have to make decisions depending on your need and choose the
> things that make up your application.
> In Java you have to make decisions for the web tier (JSF, JSP, Facelets,
> plain Servlets, ...) and persistence (simple JDBC, OR-Mapping using JPA
> with Hibernate, TopLink, ...), build system (Ant vs. Maven) etc.
> Smalltalk is not different here.
> I assume you already made the decision in Smalltalk for Seaside as
> the web thing to use. You can start developing your model, connect
> it to a Seaside UI and first use simple "in image" persistence.
> This allows you to quickly provide a first prototype of an app.
> Later you may bind your app to Gemstone or Magma persistence (both OODBMS)
> or hooking up to a relational DB using Glorp as mapping framework.
> It also depends on the Smalltalk you use - Squeak provided several
> persistence solutions, commercial vendors also provide solutions.
> If you look for an easy (wizard style) way to develop simple DB app's
> in conjunction with Seaside the "WebVelocity" beta may help
> (google for it, its commercial)
> > i just want to make sure that those kinds of expectations don't get
> > broken.
> If your company is happy with quickly developed "websites bound to a
>  database" just continue with Rails. If you need more sophisticated
> "web applications" use Seaside and choose from Smalltalk stack of
> technologies.

Right, noone questions these assumptions. What would be nice to see, is a
more understanding attitude from the Seaside list, that the term "Seaside"
can mean a web applicaiton build on top of Seaside. Just as J2EE is a
platform you can use with other things to build an application, it would
make it much easier for new developers if some of the optional things that
can be used with Seaside were more visible. The Seaside community would be
well served to help people learn this, instead of always just saying
"Seaside is not Rails".


> bye
> Torsten
> --
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Dave Bauer
dave at solutiongrove.com
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