[Seaside] rails niceties equivalents?
stephane.ducasse at free.fr
Fri May 15 20:25:23 UTC 2009
On May 15, 2009, at 9:50 PM, Eagle Offshore wrote:
> First, the point of my rather cranky reply was to point out how the
> other remark was not only not helpful, but off-putting. This is how
> seaside community gets labelled "unfriendly" and "arrogant".
> There's a lot of nice ideas in rails. Many are worth stealing.
sure I believe it.
I want to do CRUD like applications and not be forced to use Rails :)
> Seaside is a deep magical framework (the session state management
> magic and continuations) make it really hard to contribute anything
> at the core level unless they've studied and studied it. We can't
> all devote that much time to mastering all that magic.
I was not talking at this level.
Lukas et al are there for that. We need layers and easing people to
build simple application
> OK, here's a couple of things I wish were solved and have take a bit
> of time to look at and keep hitting the wall on. At some point
> fairly soon, I promise I'll take at least one of them on and try to
> do something about it if I get a little help pointing me in the
> right direction.
> I do periodically download the seaside image, and have also tried to
> get started with glass a time or two. In the end I keep running
> into time constraints and bugs that I can't seem to get around,
> tools are in a state of flux, etc.... and I conclude its just not
> stable enough yet. But I keep checking back.
> The one thing that is consistently requested (and I definitely need)
> is ways to do RESTful dispatching. The usual reply is that it is
> done in Pier and I could download Pier and look at that. I've done
> this and browsed code for a few hours, and still come up empty about
> how to do this in generic Seaside. I think the core maintainers
> have to do this - only they have the knowledge.
Ok this is a concrete suggestions. Lukas et al?
> In general, tracking down how URLs get built and routed in Seaside
> is HARD (at least it was in the previous versions - I haven't looked
> at the latest one). Rails has a really GREAT convention of making
> urls a standard REST format of scheme://server/controller/action/id
> and a "routes" file for customizing this. This is a great idea. I
> love it. I now miss it everywhere else I work. It has to be easier
> to customize URL generation in seaside in a centralized way. Maybe
> I'm too stupid for this, but every time I set out to do this, I get
> lost, deadlines loom, and I fall back on what I know will work
> (rails or django).
> Problem 2 - and this is huge. No horizontal scalability pattern has
> emerged. Rails has Mongrel and some really slick sharing via
> memcached (which actually, if I were to do something for seaside -
> adding a memcached client would be a giant win). With all
> application state stored in memcache storage, I can update and
> bounce the rails apps at any time without hosing a single session.
> GLASS looks like it may well solve this problem - except my hosting
> providers don't provide 64 bit machines and I get lost every time I
> try to get started with GLASS because I hit some half baked tool
> problem and give up.
> OK, actually, since I agree that code talks - tell me if anyone is
> doing a memcache client, and if not, I'll try to do one and see
> about applying it to shared session storage - because state in the
> image sucks for production and reliability. I want any image in a
> pool to be able to fail at any time and not have a single user
> notice. Until it does this, I can't consider it for real work.
I really think that this is the way to go. There are a lot of
seasiders out there and giving a bit of time to
the community could really make Seaside and its environment much
> -Todd Blanchard
> On May 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:
>> Hi Todd and others
>> So why don't you offer code. Start small and step by step help.
>> Why this discussion comes from time to time?
>> You cannot ask lukas and julian to speed up, make seaside uses less
>> Something I have the impression that the seaside community is
>> mainly people
>> complaining but not really offering support and new code.
>> Sorry to be harsh but this is not like that we will improve.
>>> Yes, I know. That's why my last three projects have been done in
>>> Sometimes I wish seaside would copy more and "innovate" less.
>>> -Todd Blanchard
>>> On May 14, 2009, at 7:06 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote:
>>>> Seaside is not Rails in Smalltalk.
>>>> seaside mailing list
>>>> seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
>>> seaside mailing list
>>> seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
>> seaside mailing list
>> seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> seaside mailing list
> seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
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