[Seaside] rails niceties equivalents?

[stephane ducasse]

On May 15, 2009, at 9:50 PM, Eagle Offshore wrote:

> First, the point of my rather cranky reply was to point out how the  
> other remark was not only not helpful, but off-putting.  This is how  
> seaside community gets labelled "unfriendly" and "arrogant".   
> There's a lot of nice ideas in rails.  Many are worth stealing.

sure I believe it.
I want to do CRUD like applications and not be forced to use Rails :)
>
> Seaside is a deep magical framework (the session state management  
> magic and continuations) make it really hard to contribute anything  
> at the core level unless they've studied and studied it.  We can't  
> all devote that much time to mastering all that magic.

I was not talking at this level.
Lukas et al are there for that. We need layers and easing people to  
build simple application

> OK, here's a couple of things I wish were solved and have take a bit  
> of time to look at and keep hitting the wall on.  At some point  
> fairly soon, I promise I'll take at least one of them on and try to  
> do something about it if I get a little help pointing me in the  
> right direction.

Great!

> I do periodically download the seaside image, and have also tried to  
> get started with glass a time or two.  In the end I keep running  
> into time constraints and bugs that I can't seem to get around,  
> tools are in a state of flux, etc.... and I conclude its just not  
> stable enough yet.  But I keep checking back.

Like what?

> The one thing that is consistently requested (and I definitely need)  
> is ways to do RESTful dispatching.  The usual reply is that it is  
> done in Pier and I could download Pier and look at that.  I've done  
> this and browsed code for a few hours, and still come up empty about  
> how to do this in generic Seaside.  I think the core maintainers  
> have to do this - only they have the knowledge.

Ok this is a concrete suggestions. Lukas et al?


> In general, tracking down how URLs get built and routed in Seaside  
> is HARD (at least it was in the previous versions - I haven't looked  
> at the latest one).  Rails has a really GREAT convention of making  
> urls a standard REST format of scheme://server/controller/action/id  
> and a "routes" file for customizing this.  This is a great idea.  I  
> love it.  I now miss it everywhere else I work.  It has to be easier  
> to customize URL generation in seaside in a centralized way.  Maybe  
> I'm too stupid for this, but every time I set out to do this, I get  
> lost, deadlines loom, and I fall back on what I know will work  
> (rails or django).
>
> Problem 2 - and this is huge.  No horizontal scalability pattern has  
> emerged.  Rails has Mongrel and some really slick sharing via  
> memcached (which actually, if I were to do something for seaside -  
> adding a memcached client would be a giant win).  With all  
> application state stored in memcache storage, I can update and  
> bounce the rails apps at any time without hosing a single session.   
> GLASS looks like it may well solve this problem - except my hosting  
> providers don't provide 64 bit machines and I get lost every time I  
> try to get started with GLASS because I hit some half baked tool  
> problem and give up.

I see.

> OK, actually, since I agree that code talks - tell me if anyone is  
> doing a memcache client, and if not, I'll try to do one and see  
> about applying it to shared session storage - because state in the  
> image sucks for production and reliability.  I want any image in a  
> pool to be able to fail at any time and not have a single user  
> notice.  Until it does this, I can't consider it for real work.

I really think that this is the way to go. There are a lot of  
seasiders out there and giving a bit of time to
the community could really make Seaside and its environment much  
friendlier.

sd
>
>
> -Todd Blanchard
>
> On May 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM, stephane ducasse wrote:
>
>> Hi Todd and others
>>
>> So why don't you offer code. Start small and step by step help.
>> Why this discussion comes from time to time?
>> You cannot ask lukas and julian to speed up, make seaside uses less
>> memory, clean and improve the Javascript and in addition offer  
>> database
>> supports.....
>> Something I have the impression that the seaside community is  
>> mainly people
>> complaining but not really offering support and new code.
>> Sorry to be harsh but this is not like that we will improve.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>>
>>> Yes, I know. That's why my last three projects have been done in  
>>> rails.
>>>
>>> Sometimes I wish seaside would copy more and "innovate" less.
>>>
>>> -Todd Blanchard
>>>
>>> On May 14, 2009, at 7:06 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Seaside is not Rails in Smalltalk.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Philippe
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>>
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