[Seaside] Should I become a Seasider?

Esteban Lorenzano estebanlm at gmail.com
Fri Apr 8 23:23:26 UTC 2011

well... I certainly wasn't expecting that kind of answer in a seaside mailing list. 
While a reasonable amount of criticism is fine... It looks like your opinion is "Seaside is dead, let's close all development and mailing list and advice our -few- new possible community members to keep away from us".

I strongly disagree with you (and probably with Avi too, I really don't care). I still found a lot of advantage on using seaside for my applications. I still found a lot of power behind it. And I certainly still think the seaside model is the better web-development architecture I ever found. 
Of course, continuations are not so necessary today, but they are still a lot of advantage when you need it, and I still get a huge applause (not without envy) every time I show how it works to other non-seaside developers. 
Also... for javascript stuff, I think the javascript, prototype and jquery packages still needs work (and that's why I'm doing Reef), but the ajax/javascript potential in there is HUGE. 

Why so? because seaside continuations is just one of the benefits seaside give us... there are others like componentization, reusability, and the "feeling" of you are programing a desktop application instead a web page. 

Next versions of Seaside should enhance it's "web 2.0" capabilities, of course... but not just that. I think the real strength of seaside is to provide a better (and not matched) way to program well designed applications. 


El 08/04/2011, a las 7:54p.m., Richard Durr escribió:

> I strongly advice against it. 
> Even though Seaside did provide an advantage in the past. That was because of its main feature (continuations), which allows development of web application that use pure html. However AJAX and WebApps coded in Javascript triumph in almost all circumstances continuations. In this video, Avi Bryant, the original creator of Seaside explains: http://blip.tv/file/3039582
> I suggest you learn Javascript and after that CoffeeScript. Take a look at Sproutcore.
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 11:53 PM, Ralph Boland <rpboland at gmail.com> wrote:
> This post is about making a living as a web developer using Seaside.
> I am an unemployed software developer in Calgary (1,000,000 people),
> Alberta, Canada.
> I have used Squeak for years but I have found no Smalltalk work in Calgary
> and in fact know of only one small company in Calgary that uses Smalltalk.
> I know very little about Seaside.  My impression is that websites
> developed using
> Seaside are somewhat slower than with other web development tools and that
> Seaside uses more memory (I assume on the server side) than other web
> development tools.  Nevertheless there are web developers using
> Seaside successfully.
> Are these impressions correct?
> What I am wondering is should I learn Seaside and then attempt to sell my web
> development services in Calgary?  My impression is that:
> 1)  No one in Calgary has ever heard of Seaside so selling my services
> would be difficult.
> 2)  Since I should be able to develop web sites faster using Seaside I
> should be able to
>     offer my services at a discount and hopefully be able to find
> business that way.  But
>     since no one but myself (at least locally) would be able to
> maintain the web sites,
>     potential customers are going to be very shy.
> Are these impressions correct?
> Lets assume I decide to become a web developer (something I know
> almost nothing about)
> using Seaside as my competitive edge. To my knowledge I would be the
> only Seaside
> web developer in Calgary.
> 1)  How long (starting basically from scratch) is it going to take
> before I am competent;
>     or at least competent enough to seek clients?  Assume I am a
> competent Squeak developer.
> 2)  Which version(s) of Smalltalk should I use?
>     I know Squeak and have used Visualworks in the distant past.
> 3)  How screwed will my clients be if my ticker stops unexpectedly.
> Can Seaside developers
>     from outside Calgary pick up the slack for my hypothetical clients?
> 4)  Is there any areas within the web development would that I should
> concentrate on or avoid?
> 5)  Is there any additional software/hardware that I would need other than my
>     home computer (running Ubuntu) and Squeak/Seaside?
>     My resources for investments is very limited.
> Are there other questions that I should have asked?
> Starting a business is generally a tough deal so please don't butter me up
> with glowing reviews of Seaside.
> Regards,
> Ralph Boland
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