[Seaside] Seaside redirects, really?

Wed Oct 5 18:44:11 UTC 2011

Oh, SSUrlFilter is in the SqueakSource-Core package...

Dale

----- Original Message -----
| From: "Dale Henrichs" <dhenrich at vmware.com>
| To: "Seaside - general discussion" <seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
| Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 11:42:24 AM
| Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside redirects, really?
| 
| Sebastian,
| 
| Seaside-REST is documented here[1]. If you want to see what was done
| for SqueakSource3, look at the SSUrlFilter class[2].
| 
| Dale
| 
| [1] http://code.google.com/p/seaside/wiki/SeasideRest
| [2] http://www.squeaksource.com/squeaksource3.html
| 
| ----- Original Message -----
| | From: "Sebastian Sastre" <sebastian at flowingconcept.com>
| | To: "Seaside - general discussion"
| | <seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
| | Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 11:27:58 AM
| | Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside redirects, really?
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | oh that sounds cute :)
| | 
| | 
| | I want to take a look at the code
| | 
| | 
| | is available?
| | 
| | 
| | what should I do?
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | sebastian
| | 
| | 
| | o/
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | On Oct 5, 2011, at 3:12 PM, Dale Henrichs wrote:
| | 
| | 
| | 
| | Sebastian,
| | 
| | I think that just as there is a place for static files, there is a
| | place for dynamically generated content that does not require
| | session state (and therefore is more performant).
| | 
| | With Seaside-REST it is easy to integrate RESTful urls into your
| | Seaside3.0 application ... http://ss3.gemstone.com uses
| | Seaside-REST
| | for servicing requests from the Monticello Browser and full seaside
| | for the web gui ... you get the best of both worlds ... the hits
| | for
| | mcz files and project listings are much more numerous than the hits
| | on the web-site ... so there is a big savings in session state,
| | especially since ss3 is one of those sites that do a transaction
| | per
| | request:)
| | 
| | This stuff isn't as experimental as you think...
| | 
| | Dale
| | 
| | ----- Original Message -----
| | | From: "Sebastian Sastre" < sebastian at flowingconcept.com >
| | | To: "Seaside - general discussion" <
| | | seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org >
| | | Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 10:45:39 AM
| | | Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside redirects, really?
| | | 
| | | 
| | | yeah! true!
| | | 
| | | 
| | | and preferentially with the app written in assembler using vi :)
| | | 
| | | 
| | | joke aside...
| | | 
| | | 
| | | with the avoiding session-state altogether idea you're taking
| | | things
| | | a step further, I don't know if that's appealing.
| | | 
| | | 
| | | It might be.
| | | 
| | | 
| | | It's certainly more experimental
| | | 
| | | 
| | | 
| | | sebastian
| | | 
| | | 
| | | o/
| | | 
| | | 
| | | 
| | | 
| | | 
| | | 
| | | 
| | | On Oct 5, 2011, at 2:01 PM, Dale Henrichs wrote:
| | | 
| | | 
| | | 
| | | Sebastian,
| | | 
| | | If you want the absolute fastest performance, write a read only
| | | application and serve up static pages:)
| | | 
| | | If you do anything else, you will compromise your performance.
| | | 
| | | Presumably the trade offs that you make along the way are worth
| | | it.
| | | 
| | | Even in the single request model, there is a boat load of session
| | | state being saved by Seaside and that session state is a burden
| | | on
| | | the garbage collector and impacts performance ...
| | | 
| | | If you use a framework like Seaside-REST you can avoid saving
| | | session-state altogether, but then you are responsible for
| | | managing
| | | "session state" yourself ...
| | | 
| | | There is definite value in knowing that one can arrange skipping
| | | the
| | | redirect, but it is an application-level decision whether or not
| | | the
| | | trade-off is worth it or not.
| | | 
| | | Dale
| | | 
| | | ----- Original Message -----
| | | | From: "Sebastian Sastre" < sebastian at flowingconcept.com >
| | | | To: "Seaside - general discussion" <
| | | | seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org >
| | | | Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 5:37:54 AM
| | | | Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside redirects, really?
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | On Oct 4, 2011, at 2:26 PM, Norbert Hartl wrote:
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | And still what you are saying is correct that whatever I tell
| | | | you
| | | | the
| | | | extra request goes on top. I just want to add that the effect
| | | | is
| | | | not
| | | | as big as you might think.
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | Norbert
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | perhaps, but we should rely on the measured observations on how
| | | | it
| | | | performs with redirects vs. without them.
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | Probably not for everybody but there is something else:
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | For all people using one transaction per request kind of
| | | | architectures...
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | Having the redirect means that your app needs 2 transactions
| | | | per
| | | | action with all the overhead and complications that it could
| | | | mean*.
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | sebastian
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | o/
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | *for example the data your app readed fresh in the first
| | | | transaction
| | | | has no use on the second complicating the app (if consistency
| | | | is
| | | | mandatory it probably requires a re-read). Depending on how the
| | | | app
| | | | deals with that problem, that could be a hidden cost (paid in
| | | | latency in the magnitude of I/O and in development costs)
| | | | 
| | | | 
| | | | 
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