[Pharo-project] [Seaside] Re: [Metacello] What is the plan with Pharo changes?

Esteban Lorenzano estebanlm at gmail.com
Sat Aug 4 10:04:02 UTC 2012


On Aug 4, 2012, at 11:21 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all. I am answering to all together:
> Stef: Yes, I imported and loaded the Pier of DBX website in Pharo 2.0 with seaside and magritte. With 5 minutes of opening debuggers and change things I was able to correctly make it work (at least, my app, I didn't run all tests to see).
> Dale: We don't want to just help you with "hacks", that why I send this email and several others, to see what others think so that can find better and non-hacky solutions. So, let's try to find good solutions:
> 1) does it help if we put back FildeDirectory and we remove it later ? so that you have time to update Metacello and that we can still use Metacello :)

Ok, we could do as Dale proposed, reload the package adding prefix Obsolete... that will work just for a while, and I certainly prefer to help on the adaptation than reintroduce it... of course, maybe we should do that in the first instance and in this case it was possible (se below), but well... we already screw it, so, I prefer to do step forwards than backward (if possible). 

> 2) for the SystemChangeNotifier does it make sense to delegate to the closures?  [ xx ] valueWithoutSystemNotifications.  Or we add a #doSilently: and we add  a MetacelloPharo20Platform that overrides the behavior. 

SystemChangeNotifier is a complete different situation than FileDirectory, and we removed it because the effort of keeping the system working having two different notification centers was eating all our time for make improvements. So, we (I myself) decided to unload it and stop waisting time on try to make the synchronization work... if you see the "before" and "after" (once we finish, that is not done yet)  you will notice the clarity and simplicity gained. So... SystemChangeNotification is not going to go back, but an approach like Mariano proposed would work fine, since Metacello just uses the #doSilently stuff.
Btw... this is internal from Pharo, and 99.99% of the packages around shouldn't even notice the difference. Of course, Metacello is in the 0.01% remaining :)

> 3) as Janko said, what about improving/using Grease/Sport for this purpose? do they provide something for this? could this be added?

I'm strongly against this option, because I think Metacello (base) should be part of Pharo Core (in fact I was planning to introduce it next days). If I need to load grease or sport, I certainly will banish Metacello from core... and I don't want to. Again, I prefer to spend time fixing Metacello to load on Pharo (and I maintain my offer of spending it, he).  

> 4) Should we integrate Metacello in the image with our changes until you have time and find a good solution that works everywhere? Maybe if we do 1) i
> t is not very necessary.

I want Metacello in core, so... this is probably a good idea. 


> Thanks for considering this a friendly and positive thread. 
> On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Janko Mivšek <janko.mivsek at eranova.si> wrote:
> Hi Dale,
> Dne 04. 08. 2012 07:31, piše Dale Henrichs:
> > The bigger problem is that I have to have a code base that runs on multiple platforms while being maintainable, so a "port" to Pharo-2.0 is only a starting point. In the case of FileTree, which is the real bottleneck there's a lot code that is written against the FileDirectory API, so there will need to be significant work to find a way to keep a common code base .... a much tougher problem, than "just getting it working", it can be solved with time, but I didn't budget time for an emergency rewrite of FileTree ... today.
> Just FYI, there is a Sport portability library and by using Sport's
> SpFilename you have an instantly portable file support over quite a
> dozen Smalltalks. So, if someone adapt Sport to a new Pharo 2.0
> filesystem first ..
> Best regards
> Janko
> --
> Janko Mivšek
> Aida/Web
> Smalltalk Web Application Server
> http://www.aidaweb.si
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> seaside at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
> -- 
> Mariano
> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

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