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<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN class=546083514-26042007>Hi
there,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007> I like to share some ideas about the
value equation (scoring) of Seaside systems (solutions) and to purpouse to
evaluate somethig that I suspect that could add value this equation so, if this
suspiction is finally right, it will add value for all the comunity, so we
all won.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007> Imagine you have a
scoring equation wich defines the value of your seasside solution.
This equation have the general form of: X1+X2+..+Xn </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007> Each term is a function of value
(scoring) of different domains: for instance.. X1 is loadbalance, X2 is memory
scalability, X3 is processor scalability, X4 is complexity scalability,
etc.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007> As the terms can be complex scoring functions, this
equation is also a sort of composite if we'll express it in
"patternese".</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007> Given that, I want to make
focus on two terms that are important for developers: 1. Content and 2.
Form. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007> For (non static) web applications
(or online systems as I like to say) Seaside is a framework that irrefutably
takes care of "the contents" and solves basically and consistently "the form"
using html and CSS. In the form term I want to ponder a (sub)equation of two
terms:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN class=546083514-26042007>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007> 1. Usability. The digital ergonomy.
The empirical ease of use of the systems. The facilities that your applications
had to offer to end (daily?) users.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> 2.
Cosmetic. The indumentary of the systems. Pure eye candy makeup which users like
to, as it's clothes, be able to renew often and flexibly and
numerously.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2> For the contents I have no further comments
because I consider Seaside to be vanguardist and by far the best in it's field.
So for me, content has reached irrefutability. This means that for the
"sale" (final score value) this term sells OK. Now.. for the form
(usability+cosmetic) we have reached an acceptable scoring but I think I
found a way in wich we can improve those terms in a way in direction
of form (usability+cosmetic) irrefutable scores.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007> <FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2>Said that, t</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=546083514-26042007><FONT
face="Trebuchet MS" size=2>he concrete purpouse is to evaluate Dojo javascript
toolkit as being used for Seaside applications. (see: <A
href="http://dojotoolkit.org/">http://dojotoolkit.org/</A>)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007> <FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2>I read that Dojo is ready to be use from Ruby so I think that nothing
should stop us to use it also from Seaside. Seems to be that Dojo community has
some support from IBM so this should weight something in the balance. A first
look into the demos could show you nice form value. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2>If you take a look on
the widgets in the API documentation, try to forget cosmetic for a moment and
see the usability that those widgets have to offer (and I mean the contents and
not how they made the documentation interface). Take a look into the panes with
draggeable splitters for instance. That can't be done with css. CSS can't even
give us (yet) an appropiated general solution for elemental #north, #south,
#center automatic layouts. To make that you end up using CSS hacks that leads
you to have an early compromise with the page shape. This deteriorates the
"desktopability" of web applications.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2> I don't know you but I found those widgets very
good in what they do and I think that to have them in sum to seaside
applications will rise the score of seaside solutions
significantly.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007> <FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2>My experience shows that wrapping this toolkit should lead us to a
hierarchy as rich as any Smalltalk View hierarchy of a Smalltalk that is using
native widgets. So this means coupling because the classes end up wrapping
system events and calls to build the views. Here there will be Dojo events and
Dojo calls to build up the windows (yes it can do windows inside a page) in the
browser. But the add of coupling will be with a cross-platform javascript
widgets framework so we won vanguardist widgets smalltalkish way usable
that work for lots of browsers in lots of OS's. So with this choice we end
up using javascript calls as the dlls (or homologous) libraries calls of a
native system (which is the browser in this case).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=546083514-26042007><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007> <FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2>Finally, if a Seaside is about the "descktopability" of web applications,
then Seaside+Dojo could be a good deal. Once the wrapping it's done and
maintained, It will modify the whole equation allowing the whole score to raise
more dramatically for the same development effort. That will maintain
Seaside and Smalltalk itself to the vanguard allowing the creation of Smalltalk
solutions of high real value. An ammount of value that other web application
frameworks could only dream about.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007> <FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2>Now the realistic questions: </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007>
<FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2>Why do you or do you not found Dojo
a convenient choice?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007>
<FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2>Beside Scriptaculous, do you know another
choice than Dojo? it will lead us to where? how far?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2> Do you admit that wrapping
Dojo will lead us to a View hierarchy?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007>
<FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2>Admiting that this frameworks are a
View...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007>
<FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2>Do you found Model-View-Controller can be used
in Seaside applications?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007>
<FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2>Do you found Model-View-Presenter more
suitable?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
class=546083514-26042007>
<FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2>Do you found another event-model-view glue more
convenient than those? which one? why?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007><FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=546083514-26042007> <FONT face="Trebuchet MS"
size=2>cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Trebuchet MS" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><SPAN class=250542422-20122006>
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