<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Apr 27, 2007, at 3:13 AM, Edward Stow wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Will</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Before investing too much time in the project you should have a look</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">at some of the other php frameworks.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>The initial idea behind Phaux was simply to see if I could implement anything like Seaside in PHP. The proof of concept worked so well and was so exciting I decided to continue. Because Phaux is in PHP and not Smalltalk it lacks a lot of very useful Smalltalk features. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I did look at other frameworks. None of them come anywhere near Seaside or Phaux in philosophical design decisions. All of them are traditional page biased frameworks. </DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>I have a passing familiarity</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">with<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>CakePhp and am developing an application in Prado</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://pradosoft.com">http://pradosoft.com</A>. I suggest that you look at the QuickStart</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">tutorial <A href="http://pradosoft.com/demos/quickstart/">http://pradosoft.com/demos/quickstart/</A> .</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I have looked at Prado and considering the current state of frameworks it looks nice but ...</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Both CakePhp and Prado use code generation as integral parts of their design. I can't even being to tell you how disturbing I find this. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Pardo uses templates. CSS is mature enough that templates should be relegated to a museum. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>No PHP framework other then Phaux is stateful (that I have been able to find). </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Their mechanisms for persistence are, in my opinion, backwards. They generate (*shudder*) or base the object model off the relational model. REServe (both for Smalltalk and for PHP) do the inverse. Biasing the relational model off the object model. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>There are other things as well but I don't want to clog up this mailing list with to much chatter about another project. If you would like to continue this conversation I have created a phaux-dev group. <A href="http://groups.google.com/group/phaux-dev">http://groups.google.com/group/phaux-dev</A>.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Thanks</DIV><DIV>Will</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Prado in particular implements many of the features that you listed on</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the google site.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Edward</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Edward Stow</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Seaside mailing list</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="mailto:Seaside@lists.squeakfoundation.org">Seaside@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside">http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside</A></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>___________________________________</DIV><DIV>Do I dream of electric sheep?</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN> </DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>