<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/20/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Cédrick Béler</b> <<a href="mailto:cbeler@enit.fr">cbeler@enit.fr</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>> I disagree that you wouldn't want to do Smalltalk if you don't know<br>> OO. Smalltalk is a great first OO language (taught lots on the job).<br>> If anything, Smalltalk is distasteful to others who've used other
<br>> languages and maybe never really got objects (seen it over and over<br>> teaching OO to people who've learned it on their own).<br>I'm (was ;) ) a beginner/newcommer/journeyer... Before using smalltalk,
<br>I had only basic notions of some languages as html/http... Smalltalk is<br>great to learn object and OO... I've learned a lot since but mastering<br>is another problem...You quickly realize that object modelization is not
<br>simple even if often said to be a natural, simple way of thinking...<br>"Write once and only once" has a implicit wrong meaning of simplicity...<br>It's more a question of beauty, easy maintenance but not coding easiness...
<br><br>><br>> If you like PHP or Rails or servlets, that's cool too. It's just<br>> different.<br>Sometimes, I do some php, it's fun because rewarding even if the final<br>code smells... you can quickly copy/paste/adapt hundreds of lines ;) ...
<br>Problem of smalltalk is that adding an extra functionnalities, or<br>wrinting a fix is often one of two lines of code and that's not<br>encouraging/rewarding for newcomers especially if you spend 2 hours<br>"writing" it...
</blockquote><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>You're missing the point entirely of Smalltalk with your example of producing a crappy solution in PHP. If I can write couple lines of code in Smalltalk to implement a feature or a bug fix, this allows me to spend less time doing maintenance activities and more time designing new features for the system. I have done the PHP and it's a maintenance nightmare sometimes to locate bugs and/or add new features to an existing system due to poorly implemented code. I would rather spend 2 hours of writing 2 well crafted lines of code than to write many more lines of code that isn't. I have been on projects where the code base got to a point where it wasn't maintainable after adding both bug fixes and features. Thus, the companies solution to the problem was to redesign the entire system from scratch.
</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Finding the reward is hard in smalltalk, but I think I've reach the
<br>point I've too much *fun* doing some smalltalk...I'm not being objective<br>anymore ;).</blockquote><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>The fun in Smalltalk is being able to implement well designed solutions. BTW, I also do Ruby development for some of my clients and that community is agreement with Smalltalk (
i.e. implementing small methods that's focused on a single objective). Also, there are a few blogs dedicated to design and code re-factoring.</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
What's fun in other languages are the results you get, and in smalltalk<br>it's the environment and the result... but first you need to understand<br>and be at ease with the environment.</blockquote><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div><div>I agree with you here 100% here with the addition that one needs to obtain understanding of both the Smalltalk language and OOD.</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Cédrick<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Seaside mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Seaside@lists.squeakfoundation">Seaside@lists.squeakfoundation</a>.org<br><a href="http://lists.squeakfoundation">http://lists.squeakfoundation
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