Hi, you need to learn the language before you can truly start to learn a framework. Many people hear the buzz about new technology like Seaside and try to learn it without the necessary requirement of having learned Smalltalk and OOD. Thus, I would invest some time in learning the language first and the framework second. My suggestion isn't directed at you but most of the new Seaside developers coming from languages other than Smalltalk.
<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Good luck to ALL,</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>-Conrad<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/18/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Richard Eng
</b> <<a href="mailto:richard.eng@rogers.com">richard.eng@rogers.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I'm not sure I agree with this. I'm a Seaside newbie, but I'm also a *web
<br>application* newbie. The commercial web app that I'm developing is my very<br>first web app of any kind! Does this mean that I should be writing it in PHP<br>or Java (the conventional, mainstream route)? Of course not!
<br><br>The learning curve for a PHP or Java web framework is no less severe than<br>for Seaside. I've looked at CakePHP and Java Tapestry, for example, and they<br>send shivers up my spine.<br><br>(Note that I am a veteran software developer. I've been writing software for
<br>over 20 years, mostly device drivers in C. Recently, I did a little bit of<br>work with C# and .NET.)<br><br>So if I'm going to climb a learning curve, it might as well be Seaside's. At<br>least I recognize the enormous advantages of this framework. (Twenty years
<br>of software engineering experience tend to confer a wee bit of wisdom. :-)<br>)<br><br>Having said all that, I must confess I find many things about<br>Seaside/Smalltalk puzzling. So you will forgive me if I ask stupid questions
<br>from time to time... :-)<br><br>Regards,<br>Richard<br><br><br>On 7/18/07 12:10 PM, "Ramon Leon" <<a href="mailto:ramon.leon@allresnet.com">ramon.leon@allresnet.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>>> Thanks Ramon. I agree with your comments, but I wasn't brave
<br>>> enough to say "forget all the newbies". Having said that<br>>> though, there are a lot of newbies on this list who are<br>>> interested. Your blog and other tutorials go a long way to<br>
>> helping them get into it, and hopefully see the light.<br>>><br>>> --<br>>> Jason Rogers<br>><br>> I'm not totally saying forget the newbies, I just want to point out that not<br>> every framework has to be targeted at "newbie programmers". Someone has to
<br>> cater to more experienced programmers who actually care about silly things<br>> like *flexible* architecture and plugability rather than just how fast can I<br>> puke out a table onto a screen.<br>><br>> Programming well isn't easy, and it's almost a disservice to make things
<br>> look too easy and trick people into thinking they can do something they<br>> really shouldn't be. Anyone who doesn't instantly see the intrinsic value<br>> of Seaside probably isn't ready for it. They haven't worked in enough other
<br>> frameworks to really feel the pain that makes Seaside so attractive. I<br>> don't want to scare anyone away, but from my experience, Seaside isn't a<br>> framework for beginners, PHP owns that market.
<br>><br>> Ramon Leon<br>> <a href="http://onsmalltalk.com">http://onsmalltalk.com</a><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Seaside mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:Seaside@lists.squeakfoundation">
Seaside@lists.squeakfoundation</a>.org<br>> <a href="http://lists.squeakfoundation">http://lists.squeakfoundation</a>.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Seaside mailing list
<br><a href="mailto:Seaside@lists.squeakfoundation">Seaside@lists.squeakfoundation</a>.org<br><a href="http://lists.squeakfoundation">http://lists.squeakfoundation</a>.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside<br></blockquote>
</div><br></div>