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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Not quite still. VMware Player is free and users don't need to install Ubuntu themselves, they could download GemStone's Seaside VM&nbsp; with everything included and configured, which as a matter of fact may be easier than installing and setting up VisualWorks from scratch for instance. All dialects deserve a mention and quick start sections IMHO.<BR>
<BR>
Cheers!<BR>
<BR>
-Boris<BR>
(Sent from a BlackBerry)<BR>
<BR>
----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: seaside-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org &lt;seaside-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org&gt;<BR>
To: Seaside - general discussion &lt;seaside@lists.squeakfoundation.org&gt;<BR>
Sent: Fri Jul 27 18:26:13 2007<BR>
Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside book<BR>
<BR>
Hi Monty, you're correct but the goal of the book is Seaside.&nbsp; Next,<BR>
VMWare isn't free and I would not expect my customers to purchase<BR>
VMWare, install Ubuntu, and finally install a Smalltalk environment<BR>
and Seaside packages.&nbsp; I prefer one to focus on installing the<BR>
Smalltalk environment and the Seaside package(s).&nbsp; Monty, just because<BR>
I can use VMWare doesn't mean that it's necessary or needed for<BR>
learning Seaside.&nbsp; In short, the book should be focused on learning<BR>
Seaside in the native development environment whether it be<BR>
VisualWorks, Dolphin, and Squeak environments.&nbsp; Now, if my deployable<BR>
image is VisualWorks or Dolphin, how would installing VMWare satisfy<BR>
these users?<BR>
<BR>
-Conrad<BR>
<BR>
On 7/27/07, Monty Williams &lt;monty.williams@gemstone.com&gt; wrote:<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; I'm not sure your restriction makes sense in today's world. You can happily<BR>
&gt; run Ubuntu Server Linux in a VMWare environment on a MacBook or other<BR>
&gt; machine, and use Squeak on the native environment as a development platform.<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; GLASS (GemStone, Linux, Apache, Seaside, and Smalltalk) as a deployment<BR>
&gt; environment (instead of LAMP) will also run in a virtualized machine.<BR>
&gt; <A HREF="http://seaside.gemstone.com/ss/">http://seaside.gemstone.com/ss/</A> is running in a virtualized Xen domU with<BR>
&gt; 768MB of RAM and a 20GB disk image. The underlying hardware is a<BR>
&gt; dual-processor Opteron 252 2.6GHz with 2GB of RAM which also runs GemStone's<BR>
&gt; other external websites, mail, a Confluence wiki, and DNS.<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; -- Monty<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;&nbsp; ________________________________<BR>
&gt;&nbsp; From: Conrad Taylor [<A HREF="mailto:conradwt@gmail.com">mailto:conradwt@gmail.com</A>]<BR>
&gt; Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 5:27 PM<BR>
&gt; To: Seaside - general discussion<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside book<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; Hi, I just wouldn't want to introduce something into a book that's not<BR>
&gt; supported on all the major platforms.&nbsp; At this time, it doesn't support Mac<BR>
&gt; OS X but it support Linux and Windows.&nbsp; Also, Dolphin Smalltalk only<BR>
&gt; supports the Windows platform from my understanding.&nbsp; However, it does have<BR>
&gt; support Seaside 2.7 on Dolphin Smalltalk X6.&nbsp; This is very good to hear and<BR>
&gt; one can find more information hear:<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; <A HREF="http://dolphinseaside.blogspot.com/">http://dolphinseaside.blogspot.com/</A><BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; -Conrad<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; On 7/22/07, Boris Popov &lt;boris@deepcovelabs.com&gt; wrote:<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; Except GemStone in this context is way more than just a database, its also<BR>
&gt; the execution platform for seaside itself so would have to be accounted for<BR>
&gt; throughout IMHO.<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; Cheers!<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; -Boris<BR>
&gt; &gt; (Sent from a BlackBerry)<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>
&gt; &gt; From: seaside-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org &lt;<BR>
&gt; seaside-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org&gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; To: Seaside - general discussion &lt;seaside@lists.squeakfoundation .org&gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; Sent: Sun Jul 22 16:58:15 2007<BR>
&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [Seaside] Seaside book<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; Hi James, I agree with you 100% addressing all the versions of Smalltalk.<BR>
&gt; However, I would save Gemstone/S for the database integration parts of the<BR>
&gt; book but Dolphin Smalltalk would added to the installation parts of the<BR>
&gt; book.&nbsp; Anyway, in the outline that I proposed, I assumed that the reader had<BR>
&gt; &gt; programming proficiency but I added the &quot;Introduction to Smalltalk&quot;<BR>
&gt; appendix for people that do not.<BR>
&gt; &gt; It would be GREAT to incorporate something like this in the forthcoming<BR>
&gt; books on Seaside.<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; -Conrad<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; On 7/22/07, James Foster &lt;Smalltalk@jgfoster.net &lt;<BR>
&gt; <A HREF="mailto:Smalltalk@jgfoster.net">mailto:Smalltalk@jgfoster.net</A>&gt; &gt; wrote:<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I believe that all dialects of Smalltalk that support Seaside (you<BR>
&gt; left<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; out Dolphin and GemStone) have a no-cost edition. It seems that<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; addressing each of these alternatives would be valuable.<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; James<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Blake wrote:<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Hey, guys,<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm creating an outline and some samples for a Seaside book<BR>
&gt; and am<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; wondering: Should I concern myself with Visual Works? That is to<BR>
&gt; say:<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; If I base the book on Squeak, I know everyone can get it for<BR>
&gt; free but<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; at the same time, some may choose VW over Squeak for their work.<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; How much accomodation should I make for VW? Obviously, I'll<BR>
&gt; want<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; to check over the examples in VW and make sure they work, but<BR>
&gt; apart<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; from that?<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ===Blake===<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; _______________________________________________<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Seaside mailing list<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; Seaside@lists.squeakfoundation .org<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; <A HREF="http://lists.squeakfoundation">http://lists.squeakfoundation</A><BR>
&gt; .org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _______________________________________________<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Seaside mailing list<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Seaside@lists.squeakfoundation .org<BR>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A HREF="http://lists.squeakfoundation">http://lists.squeakfoundation</A> &lt; <A HREF="http://lists.squeakfoundation">http://lists.squeakfoundation</A>&gt;<BR>
&gt; .org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<BR>
&gt; &gt; Seaside mailing list<BR>
&gt; &gt; Seaside@lists.squeakfoundation .org<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; <A HREF="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside">http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside</A><BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; _______________________________________________<BR>
&gt; Seaside mailing list<BR>
&gt; Seaside@lists.squeakfoundation.org<BR>
&gt; <A HREF="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside">http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside</A><BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
_______________________________________________<BR>
Seaside mailing list<BR>
Seaside@lists.squeakfoundation.org<BR>
<A HREF="http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside">http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside</A><BR>
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