I used Seaside and Smalltalk for the first time this summer. It wasn't easy but, unlike some online communities, these folks were willing to talk patiently to a "dumb-noob". And it was well worth it. <br><br>
In the beginning, your productivity will take a *huge* hit and your co-workers may even look at you with contempt. Of the many wheels you will re-invent the most frustrating ones (for me) are those that have been implemented in other languages/frameworks and are well-documented and mature - login boxes/user management for instance. <br>
<br>I certainly sympathize with your frustration. And the more innovative your tools, the less the distance between you and the
designers, the harder you have run. <br><br>The big win, and for me the one that trumped everything else was the helpful community and that Seaside and Smalltalk are jam-packed with *concepts* not brand-names. The concepts tend to last longer and carry over to many other areas of computer science. <br>
<br>For this reason Seaside will make you better web developer, and Smalltalk will make you a better programmer. But it will be a while before you can impress your boss by delivering on a project that was due "yesterday". <br>
<br>-deech<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Michael Atkisson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michael_atkisson@comcast.net">michael_atkisson@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
><br>
> I'll second that, the idea that you're going to do anything well in the web<br>
> app space without knowing HTML, CSS, and JavaScript is just naive. Web apps<br>
> will likely never be the easy drag and drop build it all in a GUI<br>
> environment you see in desktop frameworks. Secondly, basic HTML and CSS<br>
> skills are not difficult to learn, if you can program then you can<br>
> understand a couple of simple markup languages with little effort.<br>
><br>
> Ramon Leon<br>
> <a href="http://onsmalltalk.com" target="_blank">http://onsmalltalk.com</a><br>
><br>
<br>
</div>I personally do have a basic knowledge of html, javascript and css. What I had<br>
to know to get a project done. But basically all I hear you saying. you don't<br>
want to put anything in Seaside that would make it easier for someone with<br>
a limited knowledge of these areas to actually do useful work before they<br>
can become experts.<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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