<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hey guys,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Web components are a perfect fit for Seaside. It does not even have to be changed to start using them. At it’s core, Seaside is an extensible framework and adding new (html) tags is a core extensible feature. Take a look at the Bootstrap extension, for example. For the implementation of the web component itself, I don’t see why you would want/need to use Seaside. It’s all javascript that needs to execute in the browser and therefore best implemented using tools for that. This means you can easily still generate the entire page using Seaside (if you want server-side rendering) and include the web components implementation.We did exactly this in a couple of cases to reduce the size of the generated page: we included custom html elements in the Seaside-rendered page and included the js implementation of the corresponding web components.</div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In any case, too bad to hear Seaside did not work out for you.</div><div class="">It’s a given fact that Seaside is not the answer to all web development tasks. Use the right tool for the right job is a healthy </div><div class="">That being said, it would be beneficial if more people try to add onto (or integrate with) Seaside rather than implement something completely new. For example, take a look at how the ruby-on-rails community has added onto their (server-side rendering) framework.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We (Yesplan) use Seaside for all server-side rendered components and are having a blast using it. We are also using javascript frameworks like knockoutjs, d3js, datatables and react. But we don’t try to work with them from a Smalltalk IDE, nor do we think we can develop for those without really understanding javascript and jquery.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">cheers,</div><div class="">Johan</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 01 Dec 2015, at 09:04, Maarten Mostert <<a href="mailto:maarten.mostert@wanadoo.fr" class="">maarten.mostert@wanadoo.fr</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">He Guys If you’re like me and never managed to really understand seaside, you should have a look at Cincoms AppeX, which really makes a gréât difference in writing web applications the natural way if that is the bottom line of your concern. </div><div class="">In AppeX, you only need to know two things, smalltalk and javascript, you write the later directly (with syntax control) in the smalltalk IDE which makes for a real différence. Personally I write on top of jQuery, Bootstrap, Stripe and numerous additional plugins. My only problems remain in really understanding javascript and jquery.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards,</div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: 10pt;" class="">Maarten MOSTERT</span></div><div class=""><p style="font-family: arial; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: 10pt; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""> </p><div style="font-family: arial; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: 10pt; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><img src="http://stakepoint.com/images/LogoStakePointEmailSmall.png" alt="" class=""></div><p style="font-family: arial; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: 10pt; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""> </p><div style="font-family: arial; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: 10pt; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><span style="font-size: 8pt;" class="">28 Av Alphonse Denis</span></div><div style="font-family: arial; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: 10pt; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><span style="font-size: 8pt;" class="">83400 Hyères, France</span></div><div style="font-family: arial; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: 10pt; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><span style="font-size: 8pt;" class="">+33 676411296</span> </div><div style="font-family: arial; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: 10pt; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><span style="font-size: 8pt;" class=""><a href="http://stakepoint.com/" class="">https://stakepoint.com/</a></span></div><p style="font-family: arial; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: 10pt; word-wrap: break-word;" class=""> </p></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Le 1 déc. 2015 à 01:39, Sebastian Heidbrink <<a href="mailto:sebastian_heidbrink@yahoo.de" class="">sebastian_heidbrink@yahoo.de</a>> a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">
Hi Andy,<br class="">
<br class="">
I use/d Amber and Seaside and there is one particular thing that I
never really liked.<br class="">
You still do not feel like writing web content in a comfortable way.
Even though development speed pick's up as soon as you have
implemented your basic framework and components I always thought it
might be more convenient to use the specialized IDEs for HTML, JS
and CSS for the first visualization of your proof of concept.<br class="">
<br class="">
Now I stumbled across Polymer and I finally had the impression that
one can, just like in Seaside, built small easy to understand
components and grow from there. I actually like the separation of
JS, HTML and CSS in Polymer as well as the loosely coupling of the
application parts via events,.... just like in Smalltalk.<br class="">
BUT! I can not yet imagine on how to debug a complex Polymer
application where some components might even be developed by other
developers or teams....<br class="">
<br class="">
This is why I thought,.... PharoJS and Polymer might be a good fit.<br class="">
Unfortunately I was very close to write you anyways that it
currently seems to me as if PharoSJ is not really there yet. I
understood the concept behind PharoJS but to integrate the needed
websocket proxy layer of PharoJS into Polymer is something I still
have trouble to wrap my head around.<br class="">
I think Noury or Dave will first have to tell me how they would
integrate something like jQuery into PharoJS in order to enable me
to take what I already have and finish the Polymer parts missing.<br class="">
One might be able to use Polymer right now, but the resulting JS
code would not be comparable to the one used in the Polymer
documentation and that does not really make sense to me. One would
implement PharoJS Code that accesses/manipulates an existing polymer
object based on <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://polymer.github.io/polymer/">http://polymer.github.io/polymer/</a> Polymer.Base and
not just provide a json specification as a configuration for a
Polymer constructor.<br class="">
<br class="">
I am not sure yet if PharoJS is the right thing for me. I still feel
like writing Amber or Seaside code but this time against a wall of
proxy objects (document, window, WebSocket, ... ). I, again, need to
know and learn the api of those first class objects and their
particular behaviors... <br class="">
But if you would like to implement pure logic, independent from
third party libraries then PharoJS is alreay providing a lot to
accomplish that.<br class="">
<br class="">
The only thing that needs more attention is the layer that takes
care of the proxy and web socket live cycles. I have to restart my
image too often to have a working JbBridge again...<br class="">
<br class="">
What did you try so far? <br class="">
Sebastian<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2015-11-30 8:47 AM, Andy Burnett
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CAB0JYDi4t5rA=OZ3dNCojg-iysM042pyB1KwumgMQCx=A_9Fiw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_extra"><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">>>>
Sebastian Heidbrink said</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Hi Andy,</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">I actually just started to
write a little PolymerWorkbench as a</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">proof-of-concept to integrate
Glamour, PharoJS and Polymer. I have no</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">idea if that will work at all
yet, since I have only little PharoJS</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">experience so far. Seaside is
no target of mine. I parse the web</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">component definition files and
will edit CSS and HTML directly.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Eventhandling and script
generation shall be done via PharoJS. I think</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">this could open the PharoIDE to
the web dev world if successful.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">My impression on Polymer is the
same as yours.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">I have the impression that
Polymer finally adds some software</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">engineering level sanity to the
JS web world...</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">I'll let you know once I will
have made sources available.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><<<</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">That sounds very interesting indeed. I
have just started playing with PharoJS. So, I am keen to learn
about your experience.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Cheers</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Andy</div>
</div>
<br class="">
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</blockquote>
<br class="">
</div>
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