"Lex Spoon" <lex at cc.gatech.edu> wrote:

> [...]
> <argumentative>
> Yes, much easier.  If you aren't using halos, you aren't using morphic
> the way a programmer should.  If you are using halos, then you can
> figure this out very quickly.

> 
> And if you don't use inspectors and alt-m, then you again aren't using
> squeak the way a programmer should.  There *is* a good bit of very
> important knowledge that new Smalltalk programmers seem to miss out on. 
> But that's a failure of documentation.  In the Squeak-using class at
> Georgia Tech, these things are demonstrated around lab 2, just because
> it's so important.
> 
> Exploring menus is important, but it can be subsumed under exploring
> morphs in general.
> </argumentative>

I agree completely on this:
- a  halo is a good general tool
- inspectors are good, as are explorers
- alt-m, alt-n, alt-b, and (new for me) alt-E and possibly others are
good general tools
- there are likely to be other general tools yet unknown to me, and ways
of using the tools
  that I havnt though about

This doesnt change the following:
- It is conceivable to use a menu item on more than one way (different
clicks, typing to it etc)
  There is nothing wrong in principle with this.
- general tools can be difficult to use to find specific information, it isnt
(always) obvioues for the
  beginning user that things immediately useful for him can be done.
- The method you indicated when used for menu items assumes a lot of
knowledge about squeak,
  and are tediuos to do over and over again. Moreover it throws away
information, the way the
  shift-click works it searches for the method starting with the actual
class of the reciever, so it
  will by definition find the particular method-implementation that
would actually be used with a
  normal menu-click.

With this I end my side of this argument, I have stated my opinion, and I have as
a result learned more about Squeak. I agree on your points except
that I will my keep codefinding-click in my own image since I happen to
like it.

One idea arising from this discussion is that there might be a "How to
find information in Squeak"-
page on the Swiki, or in the FAQ. It should have a few well chosen useful things
presented with some examples on
why they are useful. Further down the side more things can be revealed,
and pointers to more complete information can be given.

> Agreed on the problems of making a transient menu stay up.  There's just
> too many kinds of menus in Squeak....
> 
> 
> -Lex

/Mats