"Protect me from what i want" - Jenny Holzer

Dan Shafer dshafer at yahoo.com
Sat Feb 24 01:49:29 UTC 2001


I think there are many views about the kind of documentation Smalltalk and
Squeak require but hardly anyone who thinks documentation is not important or
should not be done.

You can learn a great deal about Smalltalk and Squeak by reading the Web pages
where tutorials and documentation are stored on the Web. You can start by going
to the Squeak main Swiki site (http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/1). There are
tons of examples there.

I am a writer first and a Smalltalker second, so I have some of the same
frustration you express. I have actually written several books about Smalltalk
(I would be happy to see if I have an extra copy and send it to you if you want
to email me privately with your mailing address and if it's possible to send
it). I have just begun a planned series of online tutorials and examples for
the Squeak newbie audience. The first item or two will be available this
weekend if all goes according to my present plan.

But the most important thing you can learn is not to worry about asking
questions on this list just because you think everyone will already know the
answers. This group on this ML is the most helpful and open I've seen in a
great many years and I have been in this business a _very_ long time. Just this
week I learned about a problem I caused myself simply by having my Caps Lock
key down when I tried to do something. I felt silly after I found the answer,
but lots of people have since said, "Hey, I have that problem, too, all the
time." So it is now being fixed.

Welcome to Smalltalk. It's the best computer programming language there is,
period.

--- Alek Markarian <alek at acvilon.com> wrote:
> Ok i know what you think about documentation ,
> but i think you are wrong about it ! So write 
> documentation please .
> I live in small post-communist country (it is not
> a fun , but it will be tasteless to cry here :-) . In
> a nearest book store are available 6 good books
> about C/C++ (and many not so good ) there are
> books on Perl , PHP(what the hell is that) XML,
> few (already old) on Java and many on . . .Delphi (!?!)
> I can bet for sure that for next 3 - 5 years there 
> wouldn't be anything about Smalltalk . 
> The nearest supposed smalltalker is 300 km from
> here and the nearest library where i can find part
> of Newton completed works is in other place but
> same distance (no books about Smalltalk of course) .
> No credit cards and amazon.com too .
> 
> I feel like archeologist searching signs of secret
> Smalltalk civilization of 70ies and 80ies who 
> entering a taboo temple . . .and thus taking on him
> self anger of gods . I think that squeak ML become
> a very technical and tactical - and that is not good .
> But i want to write best messages that i can and to
> stay silent if i'll say someting that most peoples 
> already knows but i don't know that they (you ) know . . .
> And i want to be sure that i'll use all the power of
> the language , not only to ask "can you write for me
> that and this which i will not use because i will not
> write nothing because i feel that i don't know all answers
> i want to . . . and i don't want to add classes from 40765
> to 40954 . . . "
> 
> Well Smalltalk is not like other languages and i think
> that "documentation" for it is not like others . I think
> that vision is important part of it .
> Making instance of instance of . . . . is not a programming
> at all thus i expect a metaprograming to be covered in 
> contrast to first which is obvious and well explained in
> so much web pages . . ."The Behavior of Behavior" from
> D.N. Smith & J.L. Archibald is very interesting but only
> a slideshow (i know that they are on this ML too ) .
> I'd like to know why Behavior exist between Object and
> Class , i can't remember nothing about sources and changes
> too . What is  "behind the wall " (i.e. can't be changed)
> and why ? How many classes are needed for working Smalltalk
> i mean that some things are arrays and collections ?How the egg
> & chicken problem between Class and Object is solved and
> which messages are used (different "new" ...) . . .
> And ok there is something important :parts are less than whole system .
> Some examples are welcome too . And there is another paper
> i like too much "Wrappers to the Rescue" J.Brant , B. Foote , R. E.
> Johnson , D. Roberts . . . 
> If someone decide to take such not easy task , i think that i'll read
> with pleasure preliminary versions and ask questions
> 


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