-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Walsh [mailto:jwalsh at bigpond.net.au]
Sent: zaterdag 3 november 2001 10:35
To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
Subject: Re: Three Threads Of Squeak


Hi Ger
 
Now that Jim Benson has given up stalking me I can get back to re-reading
your emails again.
Owing to the fact that each time I scan them I see a different nuance. Your
language does require a bit of study to get your exact meaning. Please don't
feel  you have to change anything it is up to me to adjust my tuning that is
all.
 
I read the url about levels and concluded, that like CRC, it is missing the
point. It is returning from the "wilds" of Networking, Peer to Peer, to the
traditional (disliked ) MIS (hierarchical) Structure-Function Model. 
[ger: What I mean by leveling is that you, as designer are handling
qeustions of different quality on each level, but that the consequences of
change are not only going from top to bottom: during the construction of the
details of a taskset, You gain new insight that could change your design
decisions on higher levels completely: how to handle that in a tool in a
flexible way, that is the only thing i mean with yo-yo] 
 
 
This may not be what you mean by Yo Yo but, this trend looks like it to me:
Yo Yo-ing between both methods. 
Charles used to pride himself of the fact that he combined both the
methodologies in his HierNet (a hierarchy riding on to of a network).
I refused to accept that interpretation: It contradicted Kants understanding
of the "Separation of Powers" and which is even anchored in European Social
law.
It is only recently that Charles has come to agree with me. He is maturing.
He now regard his Purpose Statement or Goals to be more significant than he
had first thought.
[ger: setting a goal on the highest level does not always mean that you want
to reach that goal when your knowledge grows... You evaluate your original
goal against the new information and set again your goal... if you are lucky
it ends up as stepwise refinement, but if your goal is to far out of scope,
you have somehow to start over...
How difficult that is when you are already begun: here comes the famous de
Bono puzzle in.. How can a tool inspire someone to look at the growing
problemspace from another point of view and find a better way..]
  
The HierNet is much more than just the manifold of three levels:
1.) Concept,  2.)Logistics, 3.)Physical; (the manifest CONDITION of their
tripartheit struggle).
It is 0.) Unity (of all of these three Concepts into one absolute whole).
This Unity is Absolute, Totality, CONDITION-less.
 
Ger ! I cannot stress enough the importance of the concept of the Absolute
for it is Reasons only task: to bring this Systematic Unity to our awareness
and appreciate the Idea of Freedom itself. The children of this powerfull
Absolute Idea are CAUSE and EFFECT.
[ger: Papert and others like children to invent the wheel again, coming to
the Thrue on their own. Opponents tell a joke about a child that does setup
a test to prove that a fly hears with his elbows: "I say to a fly jump and
he jumps, then I take away his legs and when he say jump he no longer jumps,
becuase he cannot hear me anymore.." I preferr the scaffolding approach of
the original Montessori: How can we arange a learning situation and
construct materials in such a way, that it elicits wondering in the student,
who starts activities that lead to new knowledge.  ]  
Do you see what I mean?  Why Kant is such a great thinker and not a mere
philosopher.
We are now able to build your dream Ger.
Today. because we finally understand it.
Ciao
Justin
 
 
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: G.J.Tielemans at dinkel.utwente.nl
<mailto:G.J.Tielemans at dinkel.utwente.nl>  
To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
<mailto:squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>  
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: Three Threads Of Squeak

Following the link to  of Alan in another discussion, I found on the website
of Mitchel Resnick http://www.media.mit.edu/~mres/
<http://www.media.mit.edu/~mres/>  
nice examples of active essays
http://el.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/circles/
<http://el.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/circles/>  this time in
StarLogo (you need a plugin)
 
I also took a look in his article list and found one that hits my current
problem: 
 
"How to create a design interface for non-technical (and technical!)
professors that facilitates them during the construction of educational
learning settings" 
 
Not only courses, but also for problem based learning, cases, virtual
companies, project group approaches etc.
For courses we had a successful prototype, I earlier refereed to: 
 
http://130.89.152.133:8888/EducationalDesign/uploads/2/TeletopLearningRevise
d.doc
<http://130.89.152.133:8888/EducationalDesign/uploads/2/TeletopLearningRevis
ed.doc>  
 
What these designers (as normal problem solvers?) want to do is all these
things together.. surfing between levels in their design space..
What I need most is a tool that helps them to differentiate (VISUAL ! !)
between these levels and the different things you do on these levels with
the possibility to go back and forth during design. Made me cry: "I need a
yo-yo-editor!"
 
This leveling focus I did find in this article, made me rethink..
 
http://www.ccl.sesp.northwestern.edu/cm/papers/levels/levels.html
<http://www.ccl.sesp.northwestern.edu/cm/papers/levels/levels.html> 
 
I think you refer also to these levels during design, and give them common
sense names. thanks, I will work further on that idea. 
 
===========================
We, people of ten Dutch Universities and Colleges united in "Dutch Digitale
Universiteit" are working on the adaptation of an Educational Markup
Language, designed by the Dutch Open University. It is offered to the IMS
learning design group to become a subset of the IMS standards (Of course are
their other candidates for this)
 
Core of this EML is to deliver an XML based, platform independent
description tool for educational arrangements, ending up in Learning Design
Specifications, not only a tree of related resources but also descriptions
(Not prescriptions!) of conditions (also nested) that can be followed by the
runtime system when you unfold it there.... Maps to Alan's idea of "extreme
late educational binding"?)
  
(for the DTD of EML 1.0 see: htttp://eml.ou.nl)
 
One of the activities is to design authoring tools for people who are not
used to read XML-tree's on a daily base and still being in control of the
levels of design. More Tips?    
 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: Justin Walsh [mailto:jwalsh at bigpond.net.au]
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 11:06 AM
To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
Subject: Re: Three Threads Of Squeak


Missing attachment

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Justin  <mailto:jwalsh at bigpond.net.au> Walsh 
To: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
<mailto:squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>  
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 8:04 PM
Subject: Three Threads Of Squeak


Building professional software is like building a, building:
 
Three stages:
 
Concept        requires   Designer  ~ ideas
Logistic         requires   Architect  ~ concepts
Construct      requires   Builder     ~ objects
 
One tool, three threads. Designers don't lay bricks and Brickies don't
design buildings.
 
There are those that just like playing so the above order doesnt matter
unless the play is a professional activity. In that case more threads may be
added to the list.
 
It is not productive to confuse these different threads. It leads to insult
and counter insult.
 
Generally speaking anyone who has ever been a designer will understand the
role of policy, philosopy, religion: in some countries if the building faces
the wrong direction nobody will live or work in it.
 
Anybody who has ever been a brickie will understand the role of initiate,
inventiveness, imagination ie most of the tools we find at the floor level
have been created by workers "laying bricks" or to stretch a metaphor,
"writing code".
 
Sandwiched in between are the Logicians who use yet another set of tools to
ensure that Designs correspond with Objects (of design).
 
We don't have to like, understand, accept, .., each other. Just respect each
other.
Each has a different vision for Smalltalk that is all.
 
Attached is one person view on the matter

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