Apple hyping java...

John Hinsley johnhinsley at
Mon Apr 1 21:58:53 UTC 2002

On Mon, 01 Apr 2002, Todd Blanchard wrote:
> From: John Hinsley [mailto:johnhinsley at]
> >Oddly, I think the main issue with Squeak is a mind set thing 
> Maybe, but I was a VisualWorks developer for a few years so Smalltalk
> isn't exactly new to me.  My earlier statement about Squeak not being a
> production environment stands.  

Well, I didn't really want to get into that! I suppose it really depends on
what you want to produce. I'll never be a "real" programmer, but I've been very
impressed with how easy it is to put together relatively simple applications
using etoys -- direct manipulation and scripting. (Which can then be hardened
into "proper" code.)

I still look at the Squeak implementation of freecell (BTW, who wrote that?) and
note how very much better it is (I mean, graphically) than any of the versions
I've seen in Windows or the X widget sets.

 > The UI is weird and IMHO, difficult to work with.  It lacks a well 
> written set of out of the box UI widgets like those found in most 
> platform toolkits. 

Morphic is certainly different! People have done work on VW etc. style widget
sets -- Bob's UI is a good example (and perhaps the only current one), but work
seems to stall because there's relatively little demand for them.

I do think people tend to love or loathe Squeak: apart from Stef and Cees
(and, sometimes, Ivan Tomek) few people seem able (or willing) to work in both
Squeak and VW. This isn't because of any animosity between the communities, but
seems to be a mind set thing again. And just as the UI widgets in Squeak don't
seem to get used/developed, I don't see much interest (although I think there
was some code a good while back) to do Morphic in VW.

> Its an astonishingly
> intimidating environment, largely due to its initial volume I think. 

I think my initial response to Squeak was one of being overawed. And yet,
because it seemed child focussed, I couldn't see, at first, that anything
serious could be done in it. Then I played with Dolphin and LW and, somehow,
ended up seeing the bigger picture, and voted for Morphic with my feet.


They're afraid, very afraid......
According to CRN magazine, Microsoft staff discovering Linux in use
will have now access to a special 'escalation' team.
Now, where did I put that stake and mallet?

More information about the Squeak-dev mailing list