Newbie questions (advocacy included)
goran.hultgren at bluefish.se
goran.hultgren at bluefish.se
Fri Apr 12 12:37:26 UTC 2002
Bijan Parsia <bparsia at email.unc.edu> wrote:
> > > How does Squeak compare to commercial Smalltalks? I've been kind of out
> > It compares very good:
> > - Cross platform capability second to none.
> > - Very good multimedia support, probably second to none.
> > - Very good development tools/environment. Might lack a few things like
> > extensive support for team development (most development in the Squeak
> > community is done individually I think).
> > - Good performance. If you benchmark Squeak it might look "slow" (but
> > not worse than many commercial Smalltalks like Dolphin)
> Be careful...Dolphin may lack a JIT but *man* it can be *really* fast in
> places where Squeak is rather slow. I remember dorking around with things
> like #at:/#at:put: and getting some quite stunning results from
I agree - it was not meant as a general remark about Dolphin. I can
say that some things are the same speed in Squeak and Dolphin - that was
what I saw
in a few silly tests.
> Dolphin. Dolphin's transcript is also much much faster. In general,
> Dolphin's interface is very nippy and smooth.
That is surely a biproduct from using the native Win32 API for UI. I
> Not that this detracts from Squeak, of course.
> Squeak has also fared well agains Python, though, as usual, these are
> shifting targets.
> The best way to put it, IMHO, is Squeak is quite fast enough for a wide
> range of people on a wide range of hardware for a wide range of systems.
> Another, decent, way to put it is that there's still plenty of speed left
> to be wrung out of the system :)
Yes, and Squeak has a nice balance of speed vs. portability. This
the Slang possibilities (Newbienote: Slang is a special lowlevel subset
of Smalltalk that can be used to
write highperformance low level code and get it compiled and loaded as a
plugin. The VM itself
is written in this and many other things that could be performance
Squeak perform very nice when viewed altogether I think.
And the VM guys keep cranking out new tweaks all day that makes it go
It will be interesting to do some benchmarking after the new BC VM has
> > > of the loop for a while, but I kind of figured that Smalltalk was on the
> > > decline when ParcPlace and Digitalk merged then were bought(?) by Cincom.
> > Cincom is probably good for Smalltalk.
> Unquestionably. Not only did they save Visualworks, but they've hired lots
> of Big Names in the Smalltalk community to improve it. VisualWorks has
> been in the process of transforming itself into something quite stunning
> over the last year. They also contribute *lots* to the general smalltalk
> community, including sponsering events (like camp Smalltalk 2), releasing
> code (like their XML parser), and general Good Works. Yay Cincom!
> > They seem to be much more in
> > touch with reality than... well. Enough said. I just hope they make
> > money on the Smalltalk side.
> From what I understand, they do.
Good. Very good. I attended their evening at OOPSLA and it sounded very
Perhaps I sould download a copy and have a look - it was a long time
> Bijan Parsia.
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