Killer Application (was: Squeak Foundation)
Aaron Alpar
aalpar at ix.netcom.com
Sun Jun 9 03:21:19 UTC 2002
Well.... I kinda agree and disagree, although I am far from an authority on
Squeak much less the Foundation stuff.
Anyhow, for Smalltalk users Squeak, thankfully, is very familiar. I'd rather
have a consistent Smalltalk interface than one that implemented all the
UI-isms of a particular platform.
Your argument that it's difficult for newcomers is certainly valid. I myself
wish that there were some OS styles (Windows, Motif, whatever) that could be
applied to Squeak (maybe there are some that I don't know about), but in the
absence of the ability to switch UI style I'd rather have a Smalltalk
interface.
On a historical note, in the early-mid-90's there was such a cry from
Smalltalk customers to have UIs consistent with host OSs that an
implementation of Smalltalk was released that had pluggable look-and-feels.
The amount of effort that went into emulating each OS was significant - the
emulations were first rate with very few gaps, but it was a mixed success;
many users found the emulations "unusable" because of the small gaps between
the Emulation and the host OS (these are little things too, like the key to
change top-most window without having it gain focus).
Now in the late-90 Java comes along. Sun talks about introducing yet
_another_ UI look-and-feel with Swing. A few people say "don't do it, they
tried with Smalltalk and just ended up with a bunch of p*ssed off customers
wanting Windows, or Mac or whatever." Well, Sun didn't listen, they released
Swing and nobody complained.
So ... I guess my point is: Preferences change - what is unacceptable at one
month, may be acceptable the next month. Also people will adapt to UIs as
long as there's *usefullness* in the product with the UI.
- Aaron
On Saturday 08 June 2002 07:41 pm, Karl Goiser wrote:
> Hi Gary,
>
> I don't have any argument with you about the relative quality of
> various GUI's. My problem with Squeak is that its is _different_ and
> there are some very well established user interface principles about
> similarity, predictability and learning that means that switching
> between <insert your os here> and Squeak just won't do.
>
> (I was recently in the USA for Apple's WWDC. I am an Aussie, so I
> had to think about some of the most mundane things in order to get on
> with what I wanted to do because so many things were the opposite to
> what I was used to: light switches were 'upside down', sink taps
> turned the 'wrong way' - and I had to be so careful when crossing
> streets because cars drove on the 'wrong side of road'.)
>
> I don't have an argument with the Squeak user interface - I think it
> is really good to have something like this where research can be done
> - I just wish there were something just like Squeak that used <insert
> your os here> as well.
>
> Look at it from a newcomer's point of view: Squeak has a wonderful
> language, a great library (viewable in source too) and an unsurpassed
> development environment, but how are they going to find out about
> those things if they can't get past the idiosyncratically unique user
> interface?
>
> In my opinion, you get more users to Squeak by showing them a better
> way to achieve their goals, not another planet to live on. (Ok, some
> users will want to live on another planet, and that is fine too).
>
> Karl
>
> >To say that Squeak cannot succeed unless it becomes practically
> >indistinguishable from that which it should replace is reminiscent of the
> >argument that automobiles could not succeed unless they looked like
> >carriages.
> >
> >Squeak is not just another medium in which to build Windows or Mac
> >applications; that's far too limited a viewpoint. That's why your second
> >statement, "On the other hand, when you think about it, isn't Squeak
> > itself the 'killer app'?" is so much closer to the mark (and,
> > coincidentally, exactly what I was going to say. :-) The trick, then, is
> > to get the word out. IMHO, at this point Squeak needs evangelists more
> > than developers.
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