[ANN]Draft rough plan for 3.6!

goran.hultgren at bluefish.se goran.hultgren at bluefish.se
Mon Apr 14 18:10:46 UTC 2003

Hi Andreas!

"Andreas Raab" <andreas.raab at gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi Göran,
> Couple of questions:
> > 1. We are proposing to kick off 3.6 by applying the package removals
> > currently registered on SM.
> How will this affect any of the "demo projects" currently in the image?

Good question! :-) Best would of course be if we could "keep" them as
clickable thumbnails but have them being loaded from SM (and thus
potentially from the cache). Or? Other ideas?
> > 3. Remove the fonts and replace them with... what? We have had
> > discussion about using AccuFonts or something else as a 
> > better "default" in the image. More discussion on this please.
> What's the reasoning behind removing the Apple fonts? As it stands, we have
> packages up at SM which allow us to load those fonts we like. Removing the
> Apple fonts means introducing a new set of default fonts with all the
> problematic effects this implies (for example, formatting, changed look

Well, I think this boils down to the license issue. No other reason I

> etc). Also, wouldn't it be more appropriate to consider a set of "rasterized
> vector fonts" to ship with Squeak?

Probably! I guess you by this imply that we can get away from the
license issue?

> > Squeak 3.6 will could be packaged slightly different. One rather
> > nice way would be to package in two different zip-files:
> > 	1. Basic image + subset of SqueakMap package cache 
> > suitable to reach a Full image. This gives the user both the
> > Basic image and the ability to easily load a loadscript
> > to reach the Full image.
> Will this require network access?

No, that is the point. We would simply include the map file and the
directory tree with the cached releases of the packages.

> > We also postponed deeper digging into ripping apart 
> > Sockets/Streams etc since that work is done by Craig
> > in the Squat project anyway. 
> Is there any information on what the Squat project entails?! I've just been
> talking to someone who is interested in "small environments" and I would
> like to point to Squat and what's being done in there.

I think Craig set up a mailinglist at netjam somewhere (search the list
archive) and I have chatted with him on the IRC Squeak channel. Last
time we chatted (the other day) he was down to around 400kb and was
going for 200kb. He has apparently built himself a rather neat "remote
objects" protocol with *very* proxyish proxies. Using this he can work
with the tiny image by remote from a another image. Sounds impressive
and slick.

> > This means that 3.6 will not reach the "Minimal" image but instead
> > take a hefty step towards "Basic" 
> Which, to me, seems to be the better goal anyways as "minimal" typically
> requires lots of steps to get to "useful" and for most people "useful" is
> what counts ;-)


> > - that will probably be good enough
> > and set the stage for 4.0 and the merge with work done in Squat.
> What's the relation between 4.0 and Squat (if any)?

Well, Craig is aiming for the really small kernel image and the plan is
to meet halfways. :-)
But he thought it would be too soon in 3.6 - but potentially sometime

Btw, I have heard of other small images from you and Dan but I haven't
seen anything posted. ;-)

Anwyay, since Craig is currently putting a lot of time and effort into
this, we should try to find a point in time when this work can be folded
in. He is splitting stuff off in packages for example and there is no
point in doing that multiple times.

> > But do note that we haven't decided that 4.0 is the
> > version following immediately after 3.6. But we should
> > consider it.
> This probably requires some discussion. Speaking with the Croquet hat on, I
> am not entirely certain the VI4 changes buy us as much (if anything) as the
> rest of the Squeak community. I've heard Anthony saying he's considering
> some more changes - is there any status update at this point what we mean
> when we talk about "VI4" both in terms of what is going to be changed and
> what it will affect besides?

You just crossed over into Tim-land. I have no idea! :-)

> Cheers,
>   - Andreas

Cheers, Göran

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