Two important issues...

Stephane Ducasse ducasse at
Sun Feb 16 14:43:49 UTC 2003

Hi goran,

You did not read well what I say. I said that we would help and 
maintain traits
if it happens that people want it.

But traits are dead simple. Our main problems right now are with 
****Squeak code**** not with traits code. Don't misunderstand me. The 
only complex part in traits that I can see is the cache mechanism for 
the browser, which is not linked with the run-time system.

A trait is a methodDict shared among multiple class. So when they are 
composed you add, remove entries in the method dictionary or copy 
compiled method between method dictionary. Nothing more. So 
metaclass-Behavior-classBuilder are far much complex.

But again I suggest that people play with them, evaluate what they 
could do with them.
Before having traits in Squeak I would like to have a test suite for 
traits and also have a mini image completely trait based.


On Sunday, February 16, 2003, at 02:59 PM, goran.hultgren at 

> Standing on the side here...
> A few of the postings from Stephane has probably
> mistakenly/unintentionally sounded like "Ok, Squeakers - either you do
> this and this or we will leave...". I understand Jim's reaction, but I
> don't think it was intentional from Stephane.
> Ok. But there is indeed one important thing to note here - and please -
> these are just my personal reflections.
> As one of the people committed to Squeak I would not like us to adopt
> technology that will really affect Squeak to the core - if not the
> principal people behind that technology is devoted to Squeak and to the
> community and will "hang on even if the road gets bumpy". What am I
> trying to say? Well, I would really hate the following scenario:
> 1. The community adopts Traits (still a long term gradual thing of
> course). Nathanael is AFAIK the principal engineer behind the code.
> Perhaps this stuff is so complex and to the core of Squeak that few
> others can help out and/or maintain it.
> 2. Along the way "the guys in Bern" decide that, nah - Squeak wasn't 
> the
> proper vehicle for our research. It may be due to some choices in the
> community that doesn't turn out to the liking of "the guys in Bern" - 
> or
> whatever. And "the guys in Bern" simply jumps off the ship and start
> using Smalltalk-younameit instead.
> And then here we are, left with a system we don't understand, with a
> halfbaked new browser/parser etc. etc. That wouldn't be good. It could
> all turn out similarly to 3.3alpha (even if it would be partly due to
> other reasons) where we ended up with a halfbaked system we couldn't
> move forward.
> So... please tell me that I am paranoid and that the above will not
> happen. :-)
> regards, Göran
Prof. Dr. Stéphane DUCASSE (ducasse at
  "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do
  different? ... especially if, by doing something different, today
  might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes

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