Ok. This still means that making a font package with the superior
license and alternative looks of the X fonts is something that requires
no discussion, just that someone do it. If someone does it, we can put
it, instead of Accufonts, as the default fonts of the official image.

And if none do it, no big deal, because we can do it later, without
incompatibility.

And we can certainly switch the VM to use a more modern char-set, that's
better adapted to external fonts, independently of those decisions,
without delaying a license clean image.

Daniel

Andreas Raab <andreas.raab at gmx.de> wrote:
> Daniel,
> 
> > That, IIUC, means both that no VM changes is needed, and that no
> > incompatibility is caused, in which case, it's merely a matter of
> > creating another font package to put SM, and either should be
> > installable after the other. 
> 
> Well, actually, that's not _quite_ true. Changing the default character
> encoding *does* require VM support. And, doing so *will* introduce a certain
> amount of incompatibility. The point I was making is that "our daily use of
> fonts" is not necessarily affected (e.g., changing the default encoding does
> not necessarily affect whether you can use any of the fonts currently in
> Squeak).
> 
> The reason why it introduces a certain amount of incompatibility is that the
> character sets are not to 100% compatible. Some glyphs appear in some of
> them, others don't. If there is no equivalent for a certain glyph in some
> font you will have some incompatibility. Yet, for the vast amount of
> characters in the fonts this will not be an issue (the only ones I can think
> about where this might cause a problem are 'decorative glyphs' such as
> bullets) since the glyphs are "reasonably compatible" across the major
> encoding families for latin fonts.
> 
> I also think that changing the default character encoding would be very
> worthwhile. As it is, we use a default encoding which is no longer actively
> supported (e.g., even Macs essentially emulate it today) and that means that
> as we are moving towards different fonts we will have more and more "holes"
> in the character sets - glyphs that are not in Mac Roman but not in others
> and glyphs that are in others and not in Mac Roman will have to be left out.
> 
> Cheers,
>   - Andreas
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Daniel Vainsencher [mailto:danielv at netvision.net.il] 
> > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 10:50 PM
> > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> > Cc: ian.piumarta at inria.fr; Andreas Raab
> > Subject: RE: Adding Accufonts to the update stream (was Re: 
> > LicencesQuestion : Squeak-L Art 6.)
> > 
> > 
> > That, IIUC, means both that no VM changes is needed, and that no
> > incompatibility is caused, in which case, it's merely a matter of
> > creating another font package to put SM, and either should be
> > installable after the other. 
> > 
> > So, it's a mere matter of applying the nicest package that's on SM as
> > soon as we're ready to start rolling updates for 3.5.
> > 
> > Cool. I love Squeak. Thanks Andreas.
> > 
> > Daniel
> > 
> > Andreas Raab <andreas.raab at gmx.de> wrote:
> > > Hi guys,
> > > 
> > > Just to throw in an extra thought into this discussion: If 
> > you are concerned
> > > that switching the default encoding for fonts would prevent 
> > you from using
> > > any of the existing fonts you are wrong. The fonts in 
> > Squeak contain a
> > > character to glyph mapping so that any existing font (in 
> > any encoding) can
> > > be used even if the default character set is changed. In 
> > other words, all
> > > that's needed for all of the existing fonts is a 
> > WhateverWeDecide -> Mac
> > > Roman mapping and that's it. I have used this mechanism 
> > (for example) for
> > > the native font support on Windows.
> > > 
> > > Cheers,
> > >   - Andreas
> > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org 
> > > > [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org] On 
> > > > Behalf Of Ian Piumarta
> > > > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 7:52 PM
> > > > To: Daniel Vainsencher
> > > > Cc: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Adding Accufonts to the update stream (was Re: 
> > > > LicencesQuestion : Squeak-L Art 6.)
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Daniel,
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Daniel Vainsencher wrote:
> > > > > Ian, do you see a problem
> > > > 
> > > > I see only opportunities. ;)
> > > > 
> > > > > with loading AccuFonts to solve the license issues now
> > > > 
> > > > Somebody who has replaced (and lived with) the standard 
> > fonts entirely
> > > > with them would be a better judge.  But if the glyphs are 
> > in the right
> > > > places then the change should be completely transparent 
> > as far as the
> > > > image and VMs are concerned.
> > > > 
> > > > > and then doing as you guys propose as soon as we have
> > > > > everything lined up? the VMs, image enhancements like 
> > > > keyboard shortcut
> > > > > you proposed, and more (reasonable) amount of discussion to 
> > > > make sure we
> > > > > didn't miss anything?
> > > > 
> > > > The VM changes are minimal.  They'd take 15 minutes, tops.
> > > > 
> > > > The only thing we (I) missed was that most of the 
> > > > _fixed_-width X fonts
> > > > (e.g, xc/fonts/bdf/misc/6x13-ISO8859-1.bdf) come with 
> > this copyright:
> > > > 
> > > >   Public domain font.  Share and enjoy.
> > > > 
> > > > whereas the proportional fonts (times, helvetica) and 
> > courrier are not
> > > > copyright-free, and come with this one (again snipped 
> > > > directly from a bdf
> > > > file; e.g., xc/fonts/bdf/75dpi/helvR10-ISO8859-1.bdf):
> > > > 
> > > >   Copyright 1984-1989, 1994 Adobe Systems Incorporated.
> > > >   Copyright 1988, 1994 Digital Equipment Corporation.
> > > >   
> > > >   Adobe is a trademark of Adobe Systems Incorporated which may be
> > > >   registered in certain jurisdictions.
> > > >   Permission to use these trademarks is hereby granted only in
> > > >   association with the images described in this file.
> > > >   
> > > >   Permission to use, copy, modify, distribute and sell 
> > this software
> > > >   and its documentation for any purpose and without fee is hereby
> > > >   granted, provided that the above copyright notices appear in all
> > > >   copies and that both those copyright notices and this permission
> > > >   notice appear in supporting documentation, and that the names of
> > > >   Adobe Systems and Digital Equipment Corporation not be used in
> > > >   advertising or publicity pertaining to distribution of 
> > the software
> > > >   without specific, written prior permission.  Adobe Systems and
> > > >   Digital Equipment Corporation make no representations about the
> > > >   suitability of this software for any purpose.  It is 
> > provided "as
> > > >   is" without express or implied warranty.
> > > > 
> > > > But that's just standard X boilerplate, entirely 
> > Squeak-friendly, and
> > > > as someone pointed out the other day requires only being 
> > tacked on the
> > > > end of the license file.
> > > > 
> > > > Ian
> > > > 
> > > >
> >