Cees de Groot wrote:
> [...]
> So if you ask me "what is the implicit strategic vision behind what
> we're currently attempting to do", it is (ugly buzzword warning) to
> redefine Squeak as a platform (an operating system done right) which is
> distributed, by default, as a rich personal multimedia environment.
> 
> The end result for 3.7 should be that the default download image
> (kitchensink, in cdegrootspeak) from Squeak.org should look *exactly* as
> it looks now (or hopefully with much more useful bits thrown in, like
> full TTF support), but that it is recognizably built up from smaller
> bits and that these smaller bits are also individually available,
> together with the mini-image which was the base for the default
> distribution. 
> 
> The beauty of such a platform is that it allows different strategic
> visions to coexist,
 > [...]

Thank you Cees.  I had actually decided to stop reading this thread 
because it was going in circles and getting nowhere.  But I decided to 
read your message as a new voice and this exactly expresses my 
frustration with this discussion:  the end result when the cleaning is 
done will be that we can offer essentially the same image for download 
to those who want it.

But those of us who don't want it, don't have to have all the cruft that 
goes along with it.  It also has the side-benefit of forcing us to more 
clearly mark off the lines between layers and packages, identifying ugly 
dependencies, which should result in a cleaner system overall.

I keep reading words to the effect of "people can just strip out what 
they don't want".  But, no, we can't because we don't know where one 
thing starts and the other ends.  If stripping everything out was so 
easy, then this process that is taking months and months would already 
be done.  I don't want to go through this 
many-month-long-for-many-people process by myself every time I need to 
strip down a clean image.  People who know what they're doing need to 
carve up the packages so Joe Average doesn't have to.

I do think we need to be getting fixes into the stream faster but I 
don't have time to help so I can't complain.  And I do think we need to 
be careful not to take the attitude that absolutely everything should be 
a package on squeakmap.  And yes, this process will take some time, but 
that, to me, is just more proof that it needs to be done.

Julian


-- 
julian at beta4.com
Beta4 Productions (http://www.beta4.com)