One last try (was: RE: Convincing a harvester (was on SqF list))
danielv at netvision.net.il
Fri May 9 15:29:33 UTC 2003
Ok. What do I want? Just remember, you actually asked for it.
Well, after the infrastructure and cleanup work is done, we'll have a
tiny core Squeak, which can load amazing amounts of packaged
functionality (if you guys have been doing your thing in parallel, we'll
have around 3 times as much cool stuf as we do now in the full image).
We'll have 2 or 3 official image releases, and more importantly, around
30 unofficial ones. Forked? no. Part of the infrastructure is a
"changesorter" menu item that says publish changes, which makes sure to
document automatically all visible dependencies in the code, so that
anyone that wants to try it out can do so, again, with one click.
This would either load the different package needed as dependencies, or
if you don't want your image filled up, will automatically start up
another image where you can play with said changes, no matter how
"incompatible" they are with your image.
Images stop being the unit of sharing - sharing is enabled by
Even the forks - the Squeaks that actually must have a separate Basic,
because Squeak 2010 has quantum based primitives (or whatever), can use
the package system, to the extent that they provide compatibility. This
because the infrastructure is simple, and itself stored in packages.
This of course depends on forking people to be pretty careful, if they
want in the fun.
The images people use will be defined by probably 10 people that define
the main popular configurations (educational/media/hard core
development/learn-to-program/embedded stuff/web application server...)
as sets of packages. An automatic process generates ready-to-download
images of each.
We'll have a subscription-based server that notes what code subscribers
have been messing around with, and broadcasts it to all other
subscribers, so people see what others are working on, and even better,
ask questions on a package-specific chat that includes just those
Most package in SM will have their sources stored on a public code
management system (Monticello?), which lets anyone add their own
patches. The maintainer of the package get an update when people add
patches to his stuff, and the contributors get automatic notices when/if
he decides to merge them into his current version. The maintainers of
images that contain the up-to-date versions also get a notification, so
they can decide whether to upgrade.
When all of that is done, I quit Guiding, happy.
I guess you can say that beyond infrastructure and cleanups, I have no
vision at all :-)
BTW, if everybody waits until I'm done to do their cool stuff, I'll be
much, much less happy ;-)
Douglas Brebner <squeaklists at fang.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 7 May 2003 20:21:47 -0400
> "Joshua 'Schwa' Gargus" <schwa at cc.gatech.edu> wrote:
> > On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 11:19:53PM +0200, Andreas Raab wrote:
> > > That's why I asked for vision, that's why I
> > > want that people look further than the (necessary) cleanup and
> > > infrastructure work, encourage people to do cool things, encourage
> > > them to be a place for fun and joy.
> > Do you have any concrete ideas about how the Guides can further these
> > aims better than, for example, you can through your work on Croquet?
> I think what Andreas (and I) would like is a statement from the Guides
> about what they want to do *after* the cleanup and infrastructure work
> is done.
> Suppose, right now, you had a Squeak which already cleaned up and
> modularised. What would be the Guides next step?
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