Hi hans

I'm interested in the papers you mention. Could you just point me to 
the papers.
You may like to know that michele lanza just put on his webpage his PhD 
on this kind of topics.
http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~lanza/

CodeCrawler is working in VW
Stef

On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 08:07 PM, Hans Nikolaus Beck wrote:

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> Hi,
>
>
> Am Dienstag, 27.05.03 um 06:10 Uhr schrieb Alan Kay:
>
>> Thanks Andrew --
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Alan
>>
>
> Thanks from me too, Andrew and the others. Of course I will contact 
> the authors, and I also will have a look, if there are already  some 
> comercial products there. (BTW,  the point of interest are 
> visualization techniques for source code, described in IEEE Computer 
> Graphics & Visualization somewhere between 1995-1997)
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Hans
>
>> -----
>>
>> At 8:09 PM -0400 5/26/03, Andrew C. Greenberg wrote:
>>> That would be too reasonable to expect of a Federal statute, Alan. 
>>> Alas, the Patent Act generally proscribes ANY practicing of a patent 
>>> during the term, whether commercial or not (Making, using, selling, 
>>> offering for sale).  The only interesting question is whether the 
>>> conduct infringes -- not whether it was "goodie, goodie" enough to 
>>> avoid liability.
>>>
>>> That said, there is case law supporting an "experimental use" or 
>>> "fair use" exception.  An interesting article on the subject can be 
>>> found at:
>>>
>>> 	http://www.idea.piercelaw.edu/articles/30/p243.Grossman.pdf
>>>
>>> This exception is not very well-developed or clear, perhaps at the 
>>> level of the initial fair use case under the 1909 Act case law 
>>> (which recognized a fair use exception without a statute).
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 08:39 PM, Alan Kay wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't think you have infringed the patent. But now I'm not so 
>>>> sure. I think there used to be a provision that individuals could 
>>>> make a single version of anything for their own use (Andrew?).
>>>>
>>>> I think that the patent stuff is supposed to prevent competition 
>>>> for sale of ideas and technologies, but it doesn't prevent people 
>>>> making onesies for themselves.
>>>>
>>>> There is a different but related notion of "fair use" in copyright 
>>>> law. One of the things that is most under attack right now is "fair 
>>>> use" and what it means -- and indeed what patents and copyrights 
>>>> actually mean these days.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>> ------
>>>>
>>>>  At 5:57 PM -0400 5/26/03, Rick McGeer wrote:
>>>>> Alan,
>>>>> Of course, one should always attribute.  But there is another 
>>>>> question here. Suppose somebody patents a structure or protocol 
>>>>> without implementing it.  I independently discover the thing, or 
>>>>> something closely related, and implement it to see how it works in 
>>>>> practice, how it fits with existing stuff, etc.  In the tradition 
>>>>> of scientific publication, I want not only to write up the results 
>>>>> but also release the source so others can play with the idea, 
>>>>> experiment, extend, etc.  I've got no interest in selling the 
>>>>> thing or exploiting it commercially.  Question: have I infringed 
>>>>> the patent, am I liable for damages, etc?  It would be really 
>>>>> nasty to get sued for writing a paper...
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Rick.
>>>>> Alan Kay writes:
>>>>>> I don't think you do need the agreement. But it is the tradition 
>>>>>> of science to always give attribution to the creators of the 
>>>>>> ideas. So "use and attribute".
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> At 7:08 PM +0200 5/25/03, Hans Nikolaus Beck wrote:
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>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> if I want to implement  an algorithm or visualization technique 
>>>>>>> in an open source project  (in fact: squeak) which was presented 
>>>>>>> in a public paper (in this case IEEE Computer Graphics & 
>>>>>>> Visualization), do I need the agreement of the authors ? That's 
>>>>>>> a question related to the current situation of software patents 
>>>>>>> and copyright as given by law of USA.  My feeling says: I need 
>>>>>>> the agreement.
>>>>>>> Greetings
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hans
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>>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Rick McGeer           Ph: (925) 254-2524
>>>>> 50 Diablo View Road  FAX: (925) 253-0623
>>>>> Orinda, CA, 94563    Cell: (510) 334-6004
>>>>> eMail: rick at mcgeer.com
>>>>> Yahoo IM: rickmcgeer
>>>>> MSN IM: rickmcgeer at hotmail.com
>>>>> AOL IM: rick mcgeer 1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
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