Using ideas presented in papers

Hans Nikolaus Beck HNBeck at t-online.de
Thu May 29 12:40:07 UTC 2003


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Stephane,


Am Mittwoch, 28.05.03 um 09:53 Uhr schrieb Stephane Ducasse:

> Hi hans
>
> I'm interested in the papers you mention. Could you just point me to 
> the papers.
> You may like to know that michele lanza just put on his webpage his 
> PhD on this kind of topics.
> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~lanza/

Thank you very much for this link, because I'm interested using the 
Squeak environement to build a software engineering and -visualization 
tool (because  I'm not a PhD candidat but a  software engineer in a 
small company there is not very much time for such "research" or "fun 
stuff"  ;-))).

The papers that I mean are "Software Visualization in the Large" by, T. 
Ball, S.G. Eick from Bell Labs, Computer, Vol 29. No 4 (1996)
  and
"Using Visualization to Maintain Large Computer Systems" by D.E. Fyock, 
IEEE Computer Graphics and Applications Vol 17 No. 4 (1997)

but these papers are only a starting point, I want to use more UML  in 
the "graphic pipline" too, i.e. by using the conector stuff or what 
ever.....and I want to  keep such tools open to other paradims 
(functional and declarative programming).

Greetings

Hans


>
> CodeCrawler is working in VW
> Stef
>
> On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 08:07 PM, Hans Nikolaus Beck wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> Am Dienstag, 27.05.03 um 06:10 Uhr schrieb Alan Kay:
>>
>>> Thanks Andrew --
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>
>> Thanks from me too, Andrew and the others. Of course I will contact 
>> the authors, and I also will have a look, if there are already  some 
>> comercial products there. (BTW,  the point of interest are 
>> visualization techniques for source code, described in IEEE Computer 
>> Graphics & Visualization somewhere between 1995-1997)
>>
>> Thanks all.
>>
>> Hans
>>
>>> -----
>>>
>>> At 8:09 PM -0400 5/26/03, Andrew C. Greenberg wrote:
>>>> That would be too reasonable to expect of a Federal statute, Alan. 
>>>> Alas, the Patent Act generally proscribes ANY practicing of a 
>>>> patent during the term, whether commercial or not (Making, using, 
>>>> selling, offering for sale).  The only interesting question is 
>>>> whether the conduct infringes -- not whether it was "goodie, 
>>>> goodie" enough to avoid liability.
>>>>
>>>> That said, there is case law supporting an "experimental use" or 
>>>> "fair use" exception.  An interesting article on the subject can be 
>>>> found at:
>>>>
>>>> 	http://www.idea.piercelaw.edu/articles/30/p243.Grossman.pdf
>>>>
>>>> This exception is not very well-developed or clear, perhaps at the 
>>>> level of the initial fair use case under the 1909 Act case law 
>>>> (which recognized a fair use exception without a statute).
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 08:39 PM, Alan Kay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't think you have infringed the patent. But now I'm not so 
>>>>> sure. I think there used to be a provision that individuals could 
>>>>> make a single version of anything for their own use (Andrew?).
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that the patent stuff is supposed to prevent competition 
>>>>> for sale of ideas and technologies, but it doesn't prevent people 
>>>>> making onesies for themselves.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a different but related notion of "fair use" in copyright 
>>>>> law. One of the things that is most under attack right now is 
>>>>> "fair use" and what it means -- and indeed what patents and 
>>>>> copyrights actually mean these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan
>>>>>
>>>>> ------
>>>>>
>>>>>  At 5:57 PM -0400 5/26/03, Rick McGeer wrote:
>>>>>> Alan,
>>>>>> Of course, one should always attribute.  But there is another 
>>>>>> question here. Suppose somebody patents a structure or protocol 
>>>>>> without implementing it.  I independently discover the thing, or 
>>>>>> something closely related, and implement it to see how it works 
>>>>>> in practice, how it fits with existing stuff, etc.  In the 
>>>>>> tradition of scientific publication, I want not only to write up 
>>>>>> the results but also release the source so others can play with 
>>>>>> the idea, experiment, extend, etc.  I've got no interest in 
>>>>>> selling the thing or exploiting it commercially.  Question: have 
>>>>>> I infringed the patent, am I liable for damages, etc?  It would 
>>>>>> be really nasty to get sued for writing a paper...
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Rick.
>>>>>> Alan Kay writes:
>>>>>>> I don't think you do need the agreement. But it is the tradition 
>>>>>>> of science to always give attribution to the creators of the 
>>>>>>> ideas. So "use and attribute".
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> At 7:08 PM +0200 5/25/03, Hans Nikolaus Beck wrote:
>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> if I want to implement  an algorithm or visualization technique 
>>>>>>>> in an open source project  (in fact: squeak) which was 
>>>>>>>> presented in a public paper (in this case IEEE Computer 
>>>>>>>> Graphics & Visualization), do I need the agreement of the 
>>>>>>>> authors ? That's a question related to the current situation of 
>>>>>>>> software patents and copyright as given by law of USA.  My 
>>>>>>>> feeling says: I need the agreement.
>>>>>>>> Greetings
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hans
>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (Darwin)
>>>>>>>> iD8DBQE+0Ph4X8NXna8434cRAjOvAKCC/dPtuidQ6dasGBornR+2bilpGQCg92Zj
>>>>>>>> Ki5vzhrdTzT6Svb8lNmDFxU=
>>>>>>>> =mnPl
>>>>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Rick McGeer           Ph: (925) 254-2524
>>>>>> 50 Diablo View Road  FAX: (925) 253-0623
>>>>>> Orinda, CA, 94563    Cell: (510) 334-6004
>>>>>> eMail: rick at mcgeer.com
>>>>>> Yahoo IM: rickmcgeer
>>>>>> MSN IM: rickmcgeer at hotmail.com
>>>>>> AOL IM: rick mcgeer 1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (Darwin)
>>
>> iD8DBQE+06l7X8NXna8434cRAh4wAJ4pfx8RLb/Dazs2fDJTERpSELwZ9gCcCg1g
>> 8QEf6+mpEDzYWwG+BOZKvO4=
>> =3DjS
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (Darwin)

iD8DBQE+1f+rX8NXna8434cRArTyAKC4smCGwOSJ7WS3vwxUNG/j3H6bqACeMAF+
Rzs2w+7/ODKDH2dMGiWI4kY=
=kxh4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



More information about the Squeak-dev mailing list