Using ideas presented in papers
Hans Nikolaus Beck
HNBeck at t-online.de
Thu May 29 12:40:07 UTC 2003
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Hi Stephane,
Am Mittwoch, 28.05.03 um 09:53 Uhr schrieb Stephane Ducasse:
> Hi hans
>
> I'm interested in the papers you mention. Could you just point me to
> the papers.
> You may like to know that michele lanza just put on his webpage his
> PhD on this kind of topics.
> http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~lanza/
Thank you very much for this link, because I'm interested using the
Squeak environement to build a software engineering and -visualization
tool (because I'm not a PhD candidat but a software engineer in a
small company there is not very much time for such "research" or "fun
stuff" ;-))).
The papers that I mean are "Software Visualization in the Large" by, T.
Ball, S.G. Eick from Bell Labs, Computer, Vol 29. No 4 (1996)
and
"Using Visualization to Maintain Large Computer Systems" by D.E. Fyock,
IEEE Computer Graphics and Applications Vol 17 No. 4 (1997)
but these papers are only a starting point, I want to use more UML in
the "graphic pipline" too, i.e. by using the conector stuff or what
ever.....and I want to keep such tools open to other paradims
(functional and declarative programming).
Greetings
Hans
>
> CodeCrawler is working in VW
> Stef
>
> On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 08:07 PM, Hans Nikolaus Beck wrote:
>
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>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> Am Dienstag, 27.05.03 um 06:10 Uhr schrieb Alan Kay:
>>
>>> Thanks Andrew --
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>
>> Thanks from me too, Andrew and the others. Of course I will contact
>> the authors, and I also will have a look, if there are already some
>> comercial products there. (BTW, the point of interest are
>> visualization techniques for source code, described in IEEE Computer
>> Graphics & Visualization somewhere between 1995-1997)
>>
>> Thanks all.
>>
>> Hans
>>
>>> -----
>>>
>>> At 8:09 PM -0400 5/26/03, Andrew C. Greenberg wrote:
>>>> That would be too reasonable to expect of a Federal statute, Alan.
>>>> Alas, the Patent Act generally proscribes ANY practicing of a
>>>> patent during the term, whether commercial or not (Making, using,
>>>> selling, offering for sale). The only interesting question is
>>>> whether the conduct infringes -- not whether it was "goodie,
>>>> goodie" enough to avoid liability.
>>>>
>>>> That said, there is case law supporting an "experimental use" or
>>>> "fair use" exception. An interesting article on the subject can be
>>>> found at:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.idea.piercelaw.edu/articles/30/p243.Grossman.pdf
>>>>
>>>> This exception is not very well-developed or clear, perhaps at the
>>>> level of the initial fair use case under the 1909 Act case law
>>>> (which recognized a fair use exception without a statute).
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 08:39 PM, Alan Kay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't think you have infringed the patent. But now I'm not so
>>>>> sure. I think there used to be a provision that individuals could
>>>>> make a single version of anything for their own use (Andrew?).
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that the patent stuff is supposed to prevent competition
>>>>> for sale of ideas and technologies, but it doesn't prevent people
>>>>> making onesies for themselves.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a different but related notion of "fair use" in copyright
>>>>> law. One of the things that is most under attack right now is
>>>>> "fair use" and what it means -- and indeed what patents and
>>>>> copyrights actually mean these days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan
>>>>>
>>>>> ------
>>>>>
>>>>> At 5:57 PM -0400 5/26/03, Rick McGeer wrote:
>>>>>> Alan,
>>>>>> Of course, one should always attribute. But there is another
>>>>>> question here. Suppose somebody patents a structure or protocol
>>>>>> without implementing it. I independently discover the thing, or
>>>>>> something closely related, and implement it to see how it works
>>>>>> in practice, how it fits with existing stuff, etc. In the
>>>>>> tradition of scientific publication, I want not only to write up
>>>>>> the results but also release the source so others can play with
>>>>>> the idea, experiment, extend, etc. I've got no interest in
>>>>>> selling the thing or exploiting it commercially. Question: have
>>>>>> I infringed the patent, am I liable for damages, etc? It would
>>>>>> be really nasty to get sued for writing a paper...
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Rick.
>>>>>> Alan Kay writes:
>>>>>>> I don't think you do need the agreement. But it is the tradition
>>>>>>> of science to always give attribution to the creators of the
>>>>>>> ideas. So "use and attribute".
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> At 7:08 PM +0200 5/25/03, Hans Nikolaus Beck wrote:
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>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> if I want to implement an algorithm or visualization technique
>>>>>>>> in an open source project (in fact: squeak) which was
>>>>>>>> presented in a public paper (in this case IEEE Computer
>>>>>>>> Graphics & Visualization), do I need the agreement of the
>>>>>>>> authors ? That's a question related to the current situation of
>>>>>>>> software patents and copyright as given by law of USA. My
>>>>>>>> feeling says: I need the agreement.
>>>>>>>> Greetings
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hans
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Rick McGeer Ph: (925) 254-2524
>>>>>> 50 Diablo View Road FAX: (925) 253-0623
>>>>>> Orinda, CA, 94563 Cell: (510) 334-6004
>>>>>> eMail: rick at mcgeer.com
>>>>>> Yahoo IM: rickmcgeer
>>>>>> MSN IM: rickmcgeer at hotmail.com
>>>>>> AOL IM: rick mcgeer 1
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
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>
>
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