HttpView overhaul was: Re: Exploring Zope and ZPatterns [WEB][IDEA]

Avi Bryant avi at beta4.com
Sat Nov 1 01:15:53 UTC 2003


On Thursday, October 30, 2003, at 03:38 PM, Jimmie Houchin wrote:
>

> But it appears from my limited understanding of both Seaside and HV 
> that they have different philosophies and perspectives and neither is 
> wrong.

Different philosophies in some places, very different in others.  For 
example, Seaside's HTML rendering is basically a combination of ideas 
from HV and WebObjects, with a lot of Lisp influence - and I would say 
the basic philosophy matches pretty well with Goran's.

On the other hand, you're right that the treatment of URLs is very 
different - Seaside basically uses the URL (and the HTTP request in 
general) as an opaque information vector that the developer never has 
to deal with (unless they really want to - you *can* have bookmarkable 
pages in Seaside, but I admit that it's a little awkward).  HV, like 
most web frameworks, makes the HTTP request the central focus of the 
application.

However, I still have hopes that they could be unified.  Marcel Weiher 
posted a long time ago to the Seaside list about "micro-sessions" - the 
idea that an application could be made up of a large number of very 
short sessions of a few page views each.  The links within a 
micro-session would be Seaside-like: opaque, meaningless urls, relying 
heavily on server-side state, dealing with closures and continuations 
rather than dictionaries of request parameters.  However, the links 
between micro-sessions would be more traditional (HV-like).  A bookmark 
would presumably take you back to the beginning of the last 
micro-session.

Avi




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