> I dunno about "smalltalk in general" - VW, at least,
> has what's supposed 
> to be a pretty faithful clone of the JSP model,
> which sounds like what 
> you're looking for.

 Oh god no! Let me shoot myself in the head before
squeak gets jsp. blah.

> Personally, I've spent enough time doing the
> templating thing to realize 
> that it doesn't work.  Templates offer very little
> in the way of 
> refactoring and higher level abstractions, they have
> no clear ownership 
> (roundtripping between designers and developers is
> often painful), they 
> don't integrate well with the development
> environment (you usually can't 
> use "senders of" with a template), and they get in
> the way of modularity 
> - designers want to make the templates as close as
> possible to a full 
> page, whereas developers (should) want to break
> things down into tiny 
> reusable pieces.

  I agree with everything you say here.

> A different model I'd like to point to is the one we
> used on the SBlog 
> project.  I did the bulk of the UI development, and
> Jim Benson did all 
> of the graphic design, but all we agreed on was
> which tags would exist 
> with which CSS classes.  You can see how we
> communicated here:  
> http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/3481

 Thats not a bad idea. I really hadn't given something
like that a large amount of thought.

[snip execellent description of cssdev]

> CSS can be a a pain in the @#$, but if you're
> looking for an effective 
> division of labor between code and designer, it's
> the only way to go.  
> Anyone who has doubts about the level of control
> this gives the designer 
> should go to http://www.csszengarden.com and be
> disabused...

 I recently found this very site and it blew me away. 

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