Helping other for helping us too
stéphane ducasse
ducasse at iam.unibe.ch
Sat Apr 17 14:19:41 UTC 2004
hi hans
I imagine that you filled the survey
http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/scripts/SurveyMain.ssp
For the stories, I just listen when I go to conference and I'm
organizing ESUG so people talk to me.
I read also the cincom digest.
There is also the site of monty where people can list their projects.
http://www.goodstart.com/
Hans you should also contact the cincom promoting people in germany
laurent monika and georg heeg
On 17 avr. 04, at 15:41, Hans Nikolaus Beck wrote:
> Hi Stef (and others)
>
> In principle, I agree with you. In my company, I try to give a way for
> using smalltalk in our software development, and the vwnc with it's
> *full* power is the best (if not the only) way to get the money from
> management :-). The reason for this is the "linux effect": I implement
> things needed in daily work in company in *spare time*, so that the
> management could see real things which are complex enough to be a
> foundation for decisions. This is only possible with a nc version.
>
> On my desk, there are many time bombed tools, some realy interesting,
> but there is none which I could studied enough in 30 days so that I
> could say "yes, thats the solution to our problem, give x thousand
> EUR please".
>
> I could understand the commercial interest, but as I tried to describe
> above the NC is supporting the commercial interest, not killing it.
>
> BTW: where do you got information of such success stories ? I VERY
> interested in information about projects done with Smalltalk, which
> includes such data like number of machines, duration of the project,
> budget, reason of decision for smalltalk, time constraints, technical
> constraints etc...............
>
>
> Greetings
>
>
> Hans
>
> Am 17.04.2004 um 13:46 schrieb stéphane ducasse:
>
>> hi simon
>>
>> I made a ****lot**** of squeak demoes over the last 5 years and I
>> always see this funny (not fun)
>> smile on the faces of people when I show squeak. "Oh this is
>> chidlish, this is fun but come on not serious......" To the point I
>> pay an extreme attention to the way I do demoes now because I do not
>> want to be clown. Now I can be extremely aggresive with my audience:
>> "yes this looks really pink and full of color but the VM can be
>> modified on the fly you know and other stuff like that" so a demo is
>> not only showing the rotation halos.
>>
>> Now when I start my demo and ask "ok guys how many of you have a AMD
>> on your machine, raise your hands. Ok this is developed in Smalltalk
>> you do not know it but there are 400 machines in parallel controlled
>> by VW and this chain does not stop, cannot stop, and work 24h a day 7
>> days per week. And you know there are building a new plant for the
>> new generation and they are really happy with VW"
>>
>> Saying that ezboard one of the biggest web group support in the world
>> as a cluster of 120 PC serving VW or that UPS tracking system is
>> based on VW, or that the American Army is using war simulator built
>> in VW really helps. It would help even better if I could say ok
>> disney is using squeak in all the game your kids are playing but they
>> missed that opportunity.
>>
>> So now if you do not understand that VW is cool and that this is the
>> only important player in the field
>> what can I say? I'm not here to convince you but realise that the
>> fact that IBM dropped Smalltalk is bad for us even if we have fun
>> with morph and sound and flashy toys we build the week-end and the
>> night. Because during the day a lot of squeakers do Java.
>>
>> Sorry to be a bit rude but we should wake up. We are a BIG community
>> not just a small Squeaking ones. The guys from VW are good they
>> resisted to the worse period and they deserve respect and help when
>> needed. We should make Squeak growing and growing and we can move
>> faster/evolve and be different than VW. I'm the first one to
>> criticize some of their choice for their namespaces.
>> But we have to pay attention to others and we should not get trapped
>> in our nice toy because other Smalltalk exist too such as the
>> excellent Smalltalk/X http://www.exept.de
>>
>> We can influence them and they can influence us. VW now can use
>> squeak pluging, there will be/is a port of Seaside in VW. The PDF
>> framework on Squeak comes from VW.
>>
>>> Just to be contrary.. why do we need a strong an conquering VW,
>>> again ? In the big picture ?
>> This is my answer but I think that you can just think a bit and find
>> yourself all kinds of reasons.
>>
>> stef
>>
>>
>
>
>
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