It seems to me that the Squeak community has an issue.  The issue is 
similar to what I face in my day job.

1) There are not enough programmers to go around.
2) There are users wanting to use the multi-media features of Squeak, 
and want the programmers to work on that.
3) There are programmers willing to work on making the core system 
better, but are not trained or able to work on the multi-media aspects 
of the system.
4) The multi-media features require the core to work.

So you can ask Stephane all you want to work on multi-media, but that 
is not an option (from comments posted earlier).  Wishing will not make 
that so.  This is not uncaring, just reality.  If there are programmers 
willing and able to work on multi-media aspects, they will need to 
adjust to a changing core, or they can argue that the core is fine, and 
needs no changes.  As I see it either Stephane and company can either 
improve the core of Squeak, with others helping for the multi-media 
changes, or they will be forced to start a separate Smalltalk project, 
and the Squeak community risks losing not just them, but those that are 
interested in the core more than multi-media.  If that happens, the 
core could stagnate, and so on.  I applaud Stephane and company for 
coming back to working with this community, and Andreas for questioning 
how to keep the multi-media aspects functional and improving as well.  
If the multi-media types bail that is the same as a fork, it is just a 
silent one.

So, painful as it may be, keep talking.  The result will be better for 
all concerned.

Michael



On Dec 14, 2004, at 12:18 PM, Jeffrey T. Read wrote:

> On Dec 14, 2004, at 2:38 PM, Andreas Raab wrote:
>>
>> No Nihilism. Just calm reasoning. The list has gotten a constant 
>> source of frustration where it used to be a source of inspiration and 
>> if that's so one needs to ask oneself if it's actually worth spending 
>> that much time on it (it's not like I have nothing else to do). And 
>> given the recent discussion it feels like my interests are so out of 
>> sync with the prevailing opinion around here that I'm the lonely 
>> trouble maker. If that's the case then what better thing to do than 
>> to let go? It's not that I wouldn't work on the aspects that interest 
>> me - just that I'd shut up and let you guys go your way. The more I'm 
>> thinking about it, the more sense this makes to me.
>>
>
> Actually, I'm with you on this one, Andreas: I mean the whole point of 
> Squeak it seems, is to be a MULTIMEDIA smalltalk, yes? If people are 
> going to strip it down to the bare essentials because they're more 
> interested in software engineering, Web development, or something like 
> that, that's OK for their own stuff but if they want to build Squeak 
> they need to be inclusive of the things which make Squeak Squeak: that 
> includes things like etoys, Wonderland, the sound synth stuff, etc. I 
> mean if you want Cincom, you know where to find it.
>
> To me, Squeak is about breaking new ground in the world of human 
> computer interaction. The future of the computer interface is in using 
> all of your senses, especially vision and hearing and perhaps touch; 
> and kinaesthetic and motor responses. We will go from an abstract 
> level where you use the "thinking part of your brain" to get things 
> done, to a more fundamental level which is based on feeling, instinct, 
> and inspiration. Squeak is at the wavefront of this tremendous 
> phenomenon; and as such, until something better comes along to 
> supplant them (Tweak? Croquet?) Morphic, Etoys, and Wonderland are all 
> VERY MUCH a part of Squeak.
>
> --Jeff
>
>